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    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    Naruto's relationship with the nine tails

    Hi all,

    These are just some thoughts about Naruto and the nine tail fox throughout the series so far.

    Sage mode as stated by Pa frog only can be achieved by people who have large amounts of chakra and the gutsiest. Now as we all know Naruto managed to master sage mode, but why was Naruto able to master sage mode and not Jiraya? So the only think I could think of that separated them was the nine tail fox. Naruto actually if you think about it has been training for sage mode his whole life. Naruto’s chakra circulatory system has been trying to find an equilibrium with nine tails fox’s chakra ever since it was sealed in him. I believe his experience in handling the nine tail’s chakra essentially an external chakra source like natural energy, allowed him to handle natural energy easier and hence mastered sage mode. Though the nine tails stopped Pa frog from fusing with Naruto for unlimited sage chakra, but he also helped Naruto in my opinion to master sage mode over the years. You can’t have everything I guess. I reakon this is a far better reason as to why Naruto mastered sage mode other than the fact he’s the hero of the series. And yes I know plot no jutsu is very powerful, but my theory is plausible.

    Another instance where I believe the nine tail fox is making life difficult for Naruto (not in sage mode) is the rasengan. Even though he’s capable of making a technique like fuuton rasengan he still needs a clone to form a rasengan. Basically what the fox is doing is fooling around with Naruto’s chakra simply by being present in Naruto’s body. This also would explain why Naruto uses shadow clones a lot to bypass problems when he is forced to deal with high degrees of chakra control. But on the flip side with the ability to make so many clones he can train a lot faster than anyone else and his skill in using shadow clones increased through repeated use which allowed him to add wind chakra to the rasengan, again you can’t have everything.

    Here are pages from the manga regarding the fox making it difficult for Naruto to control his chakra.

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/090/8
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/094/5


    Finally I’d like to sum up what I think is happening between Naruto and nine tails there are the obvious advantages the nine tails gives, stamina, regen, strength and speed etc. But also he tries to make Naruto dependent on him by being a burden and not allowing Naruto to use his chakra effectively. And the reason he wants to that is simply to be released, based on how the seal works it allows the nine tails’ chakra leak from the seal and mix with Naruto’s over time. I also believe that “jutsu” the Forth left for Naruto to complete will accelerate this process. So my theory is the fox realizes he’s fighting a losing battle for control and eventually all of his chakra will mix with Naruto’s, which would explain the Nine-Tail’s reluctance to aid Naruto in battle and desperately trying to trick Naruto to take the seal off his cage like when he was fighting Pain.

    Here are pages referring to the nine tail's chakra leaking from the seal and mixing with Naruto’s.

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/049/8
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/091/12

    Here is a page regarding the nine tail fox's reluctance to aid Naruto.

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/095/15

    And finally here is a page outlining the nine tail fox's desperation and anger when the forth intervened just in time to stop Naruto from releasing him.

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/440/3

    That’s pretty much all I wanted to discuss, Lets us know what you guys think.
     
         
    Last edited by psukkar; 03-09-2010 at 09:30 AM. Reason: added proofs

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    Re: Naruto's relationship with the nine tails

    awesome analysis and i totally agree with u...
    reps
     
         

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    Re: Naruto's relationship with the nine tails

    I agree and I think that all these obstacles to overcome will make or actually I suppose are already making Naruto extremely strong. I'd be really happy if finally the kyuubi decided to work with Naruto and not against him though.
     
         

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    Re: Naruto's relationship with the nine tails

    I agree with you Naruto has always been suppressing the fox with his chakra and mixing it up like when he goes into his tailed form 1-3 he still has sanity balancing both chakras sage mode I think help him to learn how to consciously balance chaka also Naruto himself is gifted in he can learn jutsu or a skill very quickly.

    I also think its interesting about what you said earlier in regards to his chakra control, sage mode gives him better chakra control to the point he is able to do 2 resagans easily. I am beginning to think that sage mode cancels out the foxes chakra. I was said sage mode increases nin, tai, and gen along with more speed and ect but not advance chakra control. I think with sage mode on that is Narutos true chakra control.

    To test a theory I wanna know what will happen if Naruto goes 4tails in sage mode
     
         

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    Re: Naruto's relationship with the nine tails

    Very true......ever since naruto had the 9 tails chakra he's been subconciously mixing and learning how 2 balance his chakra with his own.......sage mode is the more advanced verion of this........and adding kyuubi with sage mode and his own chakra takes even more advanced chakra...........naruto has so much chakra that he can use a s-rank(rasengan) at least 10 times with different variations of it and he didnt even get tired......how much chakra does he have????????????
     
         

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    Re: Naruto's relationship with the nine tails

    what in interesting theory, my friend. good job! but to my mind the reason that Naruto fully mastered the sage mode is within him. he was using kage bunshins to master that teqnique,that's why he succeeded. he was using hundreds clones to master rasen-shuriken. without the clones hils lifetime would not be enough to do that.
    I also think that the fox has nothing to do with his stamina and chakra amount. he was born like that. I agree about speed. he becomes very fast when he uses bijuus chakra.
    furthermore, the reason naruto could not controle his chakra properly was Oro's fault. he put some kind of fire finger seal on naruto's belly. when Jiraya canceled that seal he was able to walk on water right away. I agree that bijuu's chakra is mixsing with naruto's, but not to the extent,to make him unable to do some teqnique.
    but anyway. these are my gueses. well done
     
         

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    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto's relationship with the nine tails

    Quote Originally Posted by konoha s beautiful beast View Post
    what in interesting theory, my friend. good job! but to my mind the reason that Naruto fully mastered the sage mode is within him. he was using kage bunshins to master that teqnique,that's why he succeeded. he was using hundreds clones to master rasen-shuriken. without the clones hils lifetime would not be enough to do that.
    I also think that the fox has nothing to do with his stamina and chakra amount. he was born like that. I agree about speed. he becomes very fast when he uses bijuus chakra.
    furthermore, the reason Naruto could not controle his chakra properly was Oro's fault. he put some kind of fire finger seal on naruto's belly. when Jiraya canceled that seal he was able to walk on water right away. I agree that bijuu's chakra is mixsing with naruto's, but not to the extent,to make him unable to do some teqnique.
    but anyway. these are my gueses. well done
    Before I say anything your guesses are easily likely to be true as well.

    But I just wanted speculate regarding what you said it was because of the kage bunshins that allowed him to master sage mode. I think there's a slight misconception when it comes to mass shadow clone training amongst a lot of fans of the Naruto series.

    Recalling the wind rasengan training, if you remember even though he had hundreds of clones to master the process of adding the wind chakra to the rasengan he was on the verge of giving up (something we see Naruto never do). It wasn't until he got an idea from Kakashi on how to look left and right at the same time then through mass shadow clones allowed to quickly master the fuuton rasengan up to 50%. The same could be said when he cut the leaf in this hand, it wasn't until he spoke to Asuma about how to visualize his chakra for nature(wind) transformation of his chakra (something simply by having a lot of clones will not help Naruto in discovering).

    This is where my idea of Naruto dealing with natural energy far easier than his predeceases comes from because of his experience handling another astounding chakra source over the years, the nine tail fox's. And not to forget as stated before the extra clones would have allowed Naruto to master going in and out of sage mode much faster, which was instrumental in getting Naruto strong enough in time for Pain who was already on his way to Konoha before the training even started yet.
     
         
    Last edited by psukkar; 03-04-2010 at 02:38 AM. Reason: typos

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    Re: Naruto's relationship with the nine tails

    Quote Originally Posted by psukkar View Post
    Before I say anything your guesses are easily likely to be true as well.

    But I just wanted speculate regarding what you said it was because of the kage bunshins that allowed him to master sage mode. I think there's a slight misconception when it comes to mass shadow clone training amongst a lot of fans of the Naruto series.

    Recalling the wind rasengan training, if you remember even though he had hundreds of clones to master the process of adding the wind chakra to the rasengan he was on the verge of giving up (something we see Naruto never do). It wasn't until he got an idea from Kakashi on how to look left and right at the same time then through mass shadow clones allowed to quickly master the fuuton rasengan up to 50%. The same could be said when he cut the leaf in this hand, it wasn't until he spoke to Asuma about how to visualize his chakra for nature(wind) transformation of his chakra (something simply by having a lot of clones will not help Naruto in discovering).

    This is where my idea of Naruto dealing with natural energy far easier than his predeceases comes from because of his experience handling another astounding chakra source over the years, the nine tail fox's. And not to forget as stated before the extra clones would have allowed Naruto to master going in and out of sage mode much faster, which was instrumental in getting Naruto strong enough in time for Pain who was already on his way to Konoha before the training even started yet.
    It is very true Kakashi and Asuma's advice is what got naruto to master the fuuton rasangan. But remember, no1 has ever used that technique before naruto, which is why he struggled to master it until he was (almost) told how to do it. But with the sage mode training he was being instructed by ppl that had already mastered it, which is why his mass shadow clone training made it a breeze, he didnt have to figure out how learn it on his own, he just had to practice it until he mastered it
     
         

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    Re: Naruto's relationship with the nine tails

    Quote Originally Posted by konoha s beautiful beast View Post
    what in interesting theory, my friend. good job! but to my mind the reason that Naruto fully mastered the sage mode is within him. he was using kage bunshins to master that teqnique,that's why he succeeded. he was using hundreds clones to master rasen-shuriken. without the clones hils lifetime would not be enough to do that.
    I also think that the fox has nothing to do with his stamina and chakra amount. he was born like that. I agree about speed. he becomes very fast when he uses bijuus chakra.
    furthermore, the reason naruto could not controle his chakra properly was Oro's fault. he put some kind of fire finger seal on naruto's belly. when Jiraya canceled that seal he was able to walk on water right away. I agree that bijuu's chakra is mixsing with naruto's, but not to the extent,to make him unable to do some teqnique.
    but anyway. these are my gueses. well done

    I just thought id point out that while he did use Kage Bunshin to help learn the sage arts, he could only use 3 clones, plus himself...
    NarutoBase.net - Naruto Manga Chapter 412 - Page 9
    NarutoBase.net - Naruto Manga Chapter 412 - Page 10

    so it wasnt like he was getting thousands of days in one day, just 4..... i dont think they actually say HOW long it took, but i think Naruto could have learned sage mode w/o the clones, just not in time for Pein's attack...

    as to the FRS, the SC training method let him do "what normally takes about six months in a few hours" is a nice paraphrase of Kakashi. IF he had spent 6 months working by himeself solely on cutting a leaf, he could have done it. I dont think FRS was comepletely out of reach in his lifetime without the SC training, just nowhere near as fast. And again, waterfall cutting was limited, due to space.... i think he was only allowed 10, but i dont feel like searching for it...


    As to the original post, bravo, i find myself in agreement with you.
     
         

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    Re: Naruto's relationship with the nine tails

    oh yeah i want to add something, i was re-reading the battle between and at the VotE, when was using the nine-tails cloak, he was able to form a rasengan with only one hand...

    I think this makes your theory even more plausible
     
         

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    Re: Naruto's relationship with the nine tails

    Quote Originally Posted by yusufms View Post
    oh yeah i want to add something, i was re-reading the battle between and at the VotE, when was using the nine-tails cloak, he was able to form a rasengan with only one hand...

    I think this makes your theory even more plausible
    Yea that's good call, but when I saw that I wasn't sure what to make of that.

    I thought of two things

    1) Naruto in 1 tail mode had more control of his ckakra or
    2) The fox's cloak was actually doing the shape manipulation for Naruto like his clones do. ( It is said fox's chakra appears to act alone and has a mind of its own)
     
         

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    Re: Naruto's relationship with the nine tails

    Quote Originally Posted by psukkar View Post
    Yea that's good call, but when I saw that I wasn't sure what to make of that.

    I thought of two things

    1) Naruto in 1 tail mode had more control of his ckakra or
    2) The fox's cloak was actually doing the shape manipulation for Naruto like his clones do. ( It is said fox's chakra appears to act alone and has a mind of its own)
    1 is more likely, since we know that Naruto cannot tell the chakra what to do, in which case the chakra would not do the shape for him. just a suggestion but if anyone has a better reason dont hesitate put it out there
     
         

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    Re: Naruto's relationship with the nine tails

    Awesome ~~
     
         

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    Re: Naruto's relationship with the nine tails

    Naruto's relationship with the 9-tails is a touchy one.....the 9-tails wishes to kill naruto and become free....naruto doesnt want to even use its power but when he is pushed to the limit its almost like he has no choice......naruto and the kyuubi need to come to some common ground bcuz without it then the kyuubi will become like madara's pet....and great nations will definitly lose the war......but if/when they do they will become an unstoppable force
     
         

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    Re: Naruto's relationship with the nine tails

    finally a thread worth reading.. reps
     
         

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    Re: Naruto's relationship with the nine tails

    I can't seem to edit my post(frist post), why can't I do this?

    I just wanted to add some chakra control references regarding the rasengan. And typos here and there.
     
         

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    Re: Naruto's relationship with the nine tails

    the question i want to know is when minato wanted naruto to control the kyyubi or its chakra did he want naruto to control it like he did in the chunin exams against neji or control the tail cloak form?
     
         

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    Re: Naruto's relationship with the nine tails

    Quote Originally Posted by NipponIchi View Post
    the question i want to know is when minato wanted naruto to control the kyyubi or its chakra did he want naruto to control it like he did in the chunin exams against neji or control the tail cloak form?
    more chakra more power i guess minato want tail cloak form cuz otherwise naruto cant beat madara
     
         

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    Re: Naruto's relationship with the nine tails

    very good and detailed with links to back up the theory awesome bruss!!
     
         

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    Re: Naruto's relationship with the nine tails

    I have posted this already,

    But can someone tell me why I can't edit my thread anymore?

    I really gotta put a bit info regarding the rasengan.
     
         

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    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto's relationship with the nine tails

    I just edited my original thread in some areas, this is old thread and as you guys know you can't edit posts after 10 days. I did also add some extra info on the rasengan area.

    edited:

    Hi all,

    These are just some thoughts about Naruto and the nine tail fox throughout the series so far.

    Sage mode as stated by Pa frog only can be achieved by people who have large amounts of chakra and the gutsiest. Now as we all know Naruto managed to master sage mode, but why was Naruto able to master sage mode and not Jiraya? So the only think I could think of that separated them was the nine tail fox. Naruto actually if you think about it has been training for sage mode his whole life. Naruto’s chakra circulatory system has been trying to find an equilibrium with nine tails fox’s chakra ever since it was sealed in him. I believe his experience in handling the nine tail’s chakra essentially an external chakra source like natural energy, allowed him to handle natural energy easier and hence mastered sage mode. Though the nine tails stopped Pa frog from fusing with Naruto for unlimited sage chakra, but he also helped Naruto in my opinion to master sage mode over the years. You can’t have everything I guess. I reakon this is a far better reason as to why Naruto mastered sage mode other than the fact he’s the hero of the series. And yes I know plot no jutsu is very powerful, but my theory is plausible.

    Another instance where I believe the nine tail fox is making life difficult for Naruto (not in sage mode) is the rasengan. Even though he’s capable of making a technique like fuuton rasengan he still needs a clone to form a rasengan. It was stated by Jiraiya that Naruto can't spin his chakra randomly very well in one hand so Naruto uses a shadow clone to spin the chakra randomly while Naruto supplies the chakra and makes sure the chakra remains compressed during the random spins. Jiraiya implied at that time Naruto was too young to spin his chakra and Kakashi also stated Naruto is a bit young to use the Rasangan on top the hospital roof after the encounter between Naruto and Sasake. But after the time skip(3 years) Naruto was still unable to perform a rasengan with one hand and ironically three years was same amount of time it took the Forth hokage to complete the rasengan where the Forth hokage would have been able to do it in one hand, as Jiraiya has never saw the method used by Naruto to spin the chakra using hands up until that time. Konohamaru I believe is the exception, Naruto taught him the rasengan at a even younger age than he learned the move, so I'm willing to put it down to age as to why he needs a clone to form a rasengan. I then came to the conclusion Naruto has major difficulties spinning his chakra and it has nothing to with his age. Basically the fox is fooling around with Naruto’s chakra making it difficult for Naruto to spin, simply by being present in Naruto’s body. This also would explain why Naruto uses shadow clones a lot to bypass problems when he is forced to deal with high degrees of chakra control. But on the flip side with the ability to make so many clones he can train a lot faster than anyone else and his skill in using shadow clones increased through repeated use which allowed him to add wind chakra to the rasengan, again you can’t have everything.
    Here is a page referring to Naruto's chakra spinning difficulties.

    Naruto 152 | Read naruto chapter 152 manga online | Manga Share

    Here are pages from the manga regarding the fox making it difficult for Naruto to control his chakra.

    Naruto 90 | Read naruto chapter 90 manga online | Manga Share
    Naruto 94 | Read naruto chapter 94 manga online | Manga Share


    Finally I’d like to sum up what I think is happening between Naruto and nine tails there are the obvious advantages the nine tails gives, stamina, regen, strength and speed etc. But also he tries to make Naruto dependent on him by being a burden and not allowing Naruto to use his chakra effectively. With this all in mind now I would like to share with you a cunning plan the Fox has been orchestrating from the very beginning. I see all the advantages the fox gives as bait to show that Naruto can confine in him to achieve Naruto's goals so Naruto would use him often. While the fox hides his true motives which we saw during the fight with Pain clearly was to be released. Now your all probably wondering how I could come up with such a conclusion with the nine tails fox orchestrating a complex plan for complete control over Naruto and here's why. Based on how the seal works it allows the nine tail's chakra leak from the seal and mix with Naruto’s over time. I also believe that “jutsu” the Forth left for Naruto to complete will accelerate this process. So the fox realizes he’s fighting a losing battle for control and eventually all of his chakra will mix with Naruto’s, which would explain the Nine-Tail’s reluctance to aid Naruto in battle and desperately trying to trick Naruto to take the seal off his cage like when he was fighting Pain.

    Here are pages referring to the nine tail's chakra leaking from the seal and mixing with Naruto’s.

    Naruto 49 | Read naruto chapter 49 manga online | Manga Share
    Naruto 91 | Read naruto chapter 91 manga online | Manga Share

    Here is a page regarding the nine tail fox's reluctance to aid Naruto.

    Naruto 95 | Read naruto chapter 95 manga online | Manga Share

    And finally here is a page outlining the nine tail fox's desperation and anger when the forth intervened just in time to stop Naruto from releasing him.

    Naruto 440 | Read naruto chapter 440 manga online | Manga Share

    That’s pretty much all I wanted to discuss, Lets us know what you guys think.
     
         
    Last edited by psukkar; 07-11-2010 at 04:44 PM.

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