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  1. #1
    Senior Member Lilt's Avatar
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    Itachi's Levels of Powers

    I haven't seen a thread like this. Thought it might be fun to critique. Everything's opinion-based, of course. If you're not an Itachi fan, then this might bore you, but feel free to troll or whatever. I didn't intend for it to become so long, but I suppose I had some time to kill and some things to say lol.

    Itachi with no Sharingan

    Kishimoto's databooks are known to not include power ups like (gates, senjutsu, etc.) the Sharingan, which is demonstrated by Deidara and Sasuke having equal speed, but Sasuke being much faster in the manga due to the Sharingan, which is also stated in databook. Despite power ups not being included, Itachi has some of the best scores in all three databooks, and they demonstrate his proficiencies in the arts.

    Ninjutsu: 5
    Taijutsu: 4.5
    Genjutsu: 5
    Intelligence: 5
    Speed: 5
    Seals: 5
    Strength: 3.5
    Stamina: 2.5
    Total: 35.5

    Most notable, only one other ninja has mastered [5/5] so many areas: Sarutobi Hiruzen. And just like with Hiruzen's statistics in the second databook likely having declined due to his old age, it's distinctly possible that, because Itachi's databook physical-based statistics are in the third databook, when Obito said his body was literally being consumed by disease, that strength, stamina, and even taijutsu had been stronger in part one when he was healthier. Most would agree that being consumed by terminal disease is worse than being pretty old, after all, and unlike Kimimaro, Itachi doesn't have a bloodline that constantly regenerates his body. Therefore, 'healthy Itachi' could potentially have perfect statistics like 'Hiruzen prime.' Why is this possible? Because of Itachi's "learning hype" below:

    Page 4:
    兄弟そろってお世話になります。
    I ask you to guide this boy just like you did his brother

    いやいやお世話だなど
    Guide? no no, there was no need...

    忍者学校(アカデミー)
    始まって以来の天才・・・
    あの子ほど優秀な生徒は今までいま んでしたよ
    He (the brother) was the greatest genius the academy had seen since it's foundation.... there hasn't been a finer student than him.

    Now, the most important thing to note here is not the ending, which is contested by some, but the middle. According to the instructor, Itachi never needed to be taught. Such was his genius as a ninja, and most interestingly, this was before he awoke the Sharingan. For he awoke and mastered the Sharingan at age eight, but graduated from the academy at age seven. It's on raw intellect alone. Combine this with the fact that at age eleven Itachi was defeating the legendary Sannin Orochimaru, and Itachi at age 17 having maximum scores in every area isn't absurd at all.

    There's probably never been a ninja as precocious as him, and Kishimoto demonstrates this by hyping ordinary skills to extraordinary levels in Itachi's hands. To the point where characters think Itachi is impossibly good with chakra molding seals, clones, kunai, and so on. Sasuke prepared summoning tattoos on his arm just to keep up with shuriken, and he still missed Itachi's clone feints, though so did Sage Kabuto. The list goes on, too.

    Do you know the only ninja, aside from Itachi, whom Kishimoto hypes basic skills to extraordinary levels? That's right: Hiruzen―clones, katons, tags, shuriken... they're too damn good with basics, and more importantly, they're geniuses. Itachi is such a genius that Kabuto hyped his intellect on the level of being able to read enemies' souls and predict their moves, an ability best counteracted by Kabuto, the many-times-stated greatest genius of lying/deception.

    And just like Hiruzen, those mastered areas likely have never-before-seen jutsu that Itachi simply didn't need in the context of the plot. We know from Shikaku and Kabuto that Itachi has unknown methods of puppeteering and mind-controlling multiple ninja, or even very powerful ninja like Sage Kabuto. We also know from Obito that Itachi has immense knowledge and skill in fūinjutsu, as even with Madara teaching him everything he knew, Obito said Itachi "somehow" sealed trap techniques into people. So with the Sharingan copying everything it sees, and clear innovation, massive databook scores, etc. Itachi likely had many more basic abilities that he simply didn't need in the plot.



    Itachi with 3-tomoe Sharingan

    Itachi with the Sharingan basically takes the individual with potentially perfect statistics and gives him massive advantages on level with power ups granted to perfect Sages and perfect Jinchūriki. Remember how badly KN0 was raping 2-tomoe Sasuke? Then, bam! Sasuke with 3-tomoes does the raping. It's a huge buff, not a moderate one. The 3-tomoe Sharingan is the reason Hebi Sasuke was blitzing Deidara, someone with equal speed to base Sasuke who had successfully eluded Gai, Lee, Neji, etc. With that massive buff, Itachi was keeping pace with Sage Kabuto and cloaked Naruto, and his flicker jutsu was necessitating warnings for even someone as reflexive as [base] Killer Bee, who performed well against many speedsters like Sharingan Sasuke, v1 Raikage, etc.

    In fact, Killer Bee is the best example to hype Itachi with just his 3-tomoe. You have someone who, thanks to his two partners, an internal beast and a sentient blade, is practically immune to both genjutsu and ninjutsu, and who specializes in taijutsu and weapons. Despite this, Itachi was the one to force Killer Bee into using transformations and making him cry out from burning shuriken. Itachi was never scratched, though he did fall back.

    And while it's true that Itachi fell back once Killer Bee entered his eight sword dance, it's equally true that nobody would hold their ground against that with a kunai. To my knowledge, Samehada wasn't with Bee there, so Itachi, who was successfully evading all the strikes, could have used a fire release on him, and if it made Samehada complain about its intensity, then it would definitely hurt an un-cloaked Bee badly. Similarly, the water release downed Sage Kabuto, so that could work too.

    Moreover, it's clear how ideal a match-up Killer Bee is for base Itachi's specialty due to being a perfect Jinchūriki. Someone without a hard genjutsu counter would have to not look at Itachi due to his many methods of casting genjutsu, yet Itachi is someone with insane blindspot-punishing, kunai-bending skills, ridiculously skillful clone feints, including exploding clones, and intense fireballs that only people like Sharingan Kakashi can narrowly evade at 15 meters. That's a catch-22 that could shame anybody without strong genjutsu defense.

    And no, I don't buy into the convenient excuse that "any Kage level can break Sharingan genjutsu." This isn't just Sharingan genjutsu. It's Itachi using Sharingan genjutsu, an individual that Shikaku and Ao believed was the single greatest genjutsu specialist that ever died. Moreover, Zetsu said that two factors being counterbalanced to break genjutsu: greater skill, and greater power. The ninja that have more potent chakra than an elite Uchiha with the Mangekyō, and more chakra control skill than Itachi, are few and far between.

    So if, say, the 3rd Raikage is caught in genjutsu, then he's going to end up stabbing himself just like Deidara was going to blow himself up. It's definitely within Itachi's intellectual capacity and plays perfectly to his specialty. It's possible that, with perfect mastery of genjutsu, Itachi might not even needed the added umph-power of his eyes. And I don't even think he could break out on his own, as I think Itachi has more potent chakra and far more skill.

    Itachi with Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu

    Basically, when Naruto saw the Mangekyō, he didn't wait a heartbeat to yell out to Bee that Itachi could finish him with either of his techniques. That's how big a deal those jutsu are: they make the Rasenshuriken look 'meh.' And I'm not just saying that as a sleight to Naruto. Itachi proved it whith the Cerberus. The dog summon had been tanking Rasenshurikens for a chapter, but then was paneled by Itachi's Amaterasu from long distance. Sasuke used it to make Killer Bee flee, and Amaterasu was enough for Killer Bee to say Sasuke was the strongest he'd ever fought.

    Amaterasu is avoidable if a ninja has a ridiculously fast shunshin (or Hiraishin) but probably only if you're ready for it. Why did I say that last part? Because look at Obito. He couldn't even get Kamui up in time to stop the trap-Amaterasu implanted by Itachi, and he was damn lucky that Sasuke didn't keep looking at his eye, too, or else his Kamui Mangekyō would have been incinerated. The other thing Obito failed to reflexively avoid with Kamui? Hiraishin. As further proof, look how shocked Naruto is by it from long distance. His reactions were too slow because he wasn't ready for it. Nagato, too. So what if Itachi used Amaterasu combined with a clone feint? That's right: GG.

    However, it's Tsukuyomi that people underestimate, mostly because of mistranslations. It's a jutsu that happens instantly. Not a few seconds. Instantly. The reason Naruto said it would finish Bee is that there's nothing to break free from. Itachi doesn't take control of the chakra system like he does with normal genjutsu. He implants chunks of information in an instant. Moreover, there are control-capabilities to this jutsu, as Kabuto said that he could be controlled.

    Needless to say, the potential to control a ninja like Kabuto: a perfect sage, master medic, genjutsu master, etc. in an instant after eye contact is completely devastating. The databook hype for Tsukuyomi makes Amaterasu look like garbage. And even if you evade eye contact, you can certainly be tricked or surprised into doing so, which is why Kabuto just shut his eyes completely. This is ignored because it's so retardedly broken.

    Itachi with full partial Susano'o

    This will be a small section. The speed of Susano'o is often hugely underestimated. As pointed out previously, Itachi is one of the fastest characters in the manga, beaten by only the best of the best. And yet partial Susano'o extensions are so fast that Itachi could only counter Sasuke's offensive extension with his own. The only individual that has dodged this is Sage Kabuto, who could straight-avoid the arrow that Kakashi couldn't even budge against, and Kakashi is someone that is keeping pace with Gated Gai against cloaked Jinchūriki, Obito, etc. Basically it's wicked-fast and dangerous.

    Moreover, the shell of Susano'o itself, or the ribs, used by Madara, Sasuke, and Itachi are fairly powerful. It's true that A punched through it, but A is imensely strong, had ridiculous momentum, and uses the piercing element. In contrast, the grinding of Naruto's chou Rasengan didn't break through it, so not much can. The skeletal, fleshed, clothed, and armored Susano'o are all levels up from there, with the clothed Susano'o being able to endure a super-powered Fūton with the undefended portion of its back, indicating that it would likely endure the Rasenshuriken with its front.

    Itachi with armored Susano'o and legendary items

    It's no secret that symbolism regarding Itachi involves divinity, because ravens are messengers of the divine in their mythology. But Kishimoto took that hype seriously with Itachi's regalia items, which are traditionally used as proof of the Japanese emperor's divinity. The databook called Itachi's Susano'o flawless in offense and defese solely because of the items Itachi's possesses. Black Zetsu, Madara's surrogate and essence, said Itachi was completely invincible because of them.

    In terms of portrayal, the moment those items come out, Big Bads go down. Orochimaru and Nagato were pierced in between panels. The sword had no issue consuming Nagato with most of the Hachibi's chakra, along with Orochimaru. The limits of the sword were never explored, and may not exist, as Orochimaru was said to have been searching for the blade all his life despite having Edo Tensei, immortality, etc. And after displays like those in the manga, there isn't any real reason to doubt their efficacy relative to databook description or character statements. It's no coincidence that Sage Kabuto never had to go against them, or even the full Susano'o of either Uchiha.

    The ability to dodge the sword is unlikely, as the final version of Susano'o was portrayed to be very fast, almost certainly a good deal faster than partial Susano'o. In any case, it removed seven striking serpent heads so quickly that they hit the ground simultaneously despite the blade having to cover several hundred meters to do so, and the thrust that surprised Orochimaru and Nagato is likely significantly faster than the multiple slashes.

    And better still, upon Nagato's sealing, we can see Itachi standing casually on the outside of his armored Susano'o. This hints at what we've known all along about Susano'o users but never liked: the user can fight with Susano'o. Itachi already used clones with partial Susano'o against Kabuto, so genjutsu, clones, etc. can all be combined with Totsuka slahes and thrusts. Ouch.
     
         
    Last edited by Lilt; 01-28-2013 at 03:10 AM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Itachi's Levels of Powers

    Okay ^_^ Nice analysis
     
         

  3. #3
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    Re: Itachi's Levels of Powers

    amazing.........did u type this?
     
         

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    Senior Member AirWind's Avatar
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    Re: Itachi's Levels of Powers

    I was too tired to read everything but as long as u didnt trolled Itachi, everything u say seems legit.
     
         

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    Re: Itachi's Levels of Powers

    Way more in depth then i thought, nice thread man
     
         

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    Re: Itachi's Levels of Powers

    Awesome thread bro
     
         

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    Re: Itachi's Levels of Powers

    applause
     
         

  8. #8
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    Re: Itachi's Levels of Powers

    Oh look another Itachi thread not being a troll or anything, I like Itachi as well, but these threads are kind of redundant. We know he is a top class shinobi, so why try make more threads about his power? Like I said, I'm not trying to be rude, but it is kind of redundant and annoying at the same time seeing all these threads about him.
     
         

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    "Real Talk" Dubbuoo's Avatar
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    Re: Itachi's Levels of Powers

    i approve
     
         

  10. #10
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    Re: Itachi's Levels of Powers

    Quote Originally Posted by fastrthnwind View Post
    Oh look another Itachi thread not being a troll or anything, I like Itachi as well, but these threads are kind of redundant. We know he is a top class shinobi, so why try make more threads about his power? Like I said, I'm not trying to be rude, but it is kind of redundant and annoying at the same time seeing all these threads about him.
    No, yeah, I get it. I guess everybody wants their opinions and analyses heard. It seems like a lot of people are appreciative of mine, but not 100% obviously. I think that if you're sick of Itachi threads though, then you might not want to click on links with his name. Until you're less sick of them, at least.

    I absolutely love the polarity his character creates. It's marvelous, and that, I believe, is what makes Itachi so addictive to discuss. Very few people can be neutral about him, because adoration always inspires disgust, and minimizes neutrality. Itachi takes advantage of all elements, because both his power and morality are questionable. The author left hype and adoration, as well as doubt and regret. Humans love to argue, so both sides will always be represented.
     
         

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    Re: Itachi's Levels of Powers

    This is awesome. I look forward to more threads like this from you. THERE WILL BE MORE RIGHT?
     
         

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    Member Namikaze Senju's Avatar
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    Re: Itachi's Levels of Powers

    interesting
     
         

  13. #13
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    Re: Itachi's Levels of Powers

    Great analysis, I really do hope people read it
     
         

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    Senior Member badoera's Avatar
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    Re: Itachi's Levels of Powers

    awesome thread, a pleassure to read this
     
         

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    Iq=over 9000 sindi1997's Avatar
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    Re: Itachi's Levels of Powers

    I read it all and i enjoyed it so much thnx bro ^_^
     
         

  16. #16
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    Re: Itachi's Levels of Powers

    Very good thread... Detailed and few interesting points
    Keep it up!!!!
     
         

  17. #17
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    Re: Itachi's Levels of Powers

    Fuck it.

    I've finaly decided itachi is above minato by feats anyway.
     
         

  18. #18
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    Re: Itachi's Levels of Powers

    I agree.
    Very nice.
     
         

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    Re: Itachi's Levels of Powers

    i like it, long to read but true
     
         

  20. #20
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    Re: Itachi's Levels of Powers

    Quote Originally Posted by spade3dg View Post
    This is awesome. I look forward to more threads like this from you. THERE WILL BE MORE RIGHT?
    Almost certainly lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Luck View Post
    Fuck it.

    I've finaly decided itachi is above minato by feats anyway.
    Yeah, I was thinking about making a thread about this.

    Imo, Minato = Itachi within the author's mind.

    But if Minato were resurrected and thrown up against Itachi, he'd be very disadvantaged.
     
         

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