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  1. #1
    Heathen. ImmaculateShadow's Avatar
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    Native American Israelites

    So I saw this post by one of my favorite NBers today on a thread that no longer exists —

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinobi Train View Post
    No, technically the Americas, as we call it now, were founded by the Israelites. The Israelites formed a powerful sea empire at one time call the Phoenicians today. They spread a rumor throughout Europe, Africa and Asia about giant sea monsters that dwelled in the deep oceans, so no one was brave enough to travel too far from the coast. What they were really doing was tryig to keep the continents over here a secret, and it worked for a long time.

    The Native Americans were what was left of those Israelite tribes that journeyed over. There may have been people already here before them, but no records remain of that. The Norse also traveled here at one point but were unable to set up a civilization, probably due to the Israelite tribes that were already here. Then sometime in the far future, a man name Christopher Columbus landed on an island in Central America...he actually never found a single continent.

    Once Europe was aware that there were lands here for the taking, then voyages were sent underway. For a long time the settlers and the natives (the Israelite tribes) were peaceful, everything was fine. It didn't take long for a rift to begin though. A large part of it was due to greed, plus the tribes weren't exactly on friendly terms with each other and often made bargains with the settlers to attack their enemies. After long enough, it was clear that the settlers had taken sides on certain things, and then it wasn't long before bad stuff started to happen.

    On top of that, the natives were also killed off by diseases that were brought over. We were immune to them, but they weren't and it spread like wild fire.
    — Then I thought to myself.



    Here's the thing NB, I would have just simply laughed at this post and asked ST if he was Mormon, but then I read comments from people asking for more information, that's when I knew I couldn't sit by. I had to make a thread talking about the every thing I know to the invalid nature of this claim of Israelites in American Folk Lore.

    Here is the hypothesis: that the principle ancestor of the Native Americans were in fact the Israelites, one of the lost twelve tribes of Israel.

    The above quote from ST is at least 60% lies fabricated in, for the most part, America during the 1800's. This doesn't mean that they weren't wide spread in those times though - they were extremely popular. It was thought that one of the major evidences for the hypothesis came from the burial mounds which the European settlers found all across the land scape of the eastern coast. The settlers just couldn't conceive of the notion that the Native Tribes had the sophistication to make them. No, really.

    One of the major proponents of this idea was a man named Ethan Smith, who wrote a book in 1824 [and printed an extended copy in 1825] called View of the Hebrews. I have one on the book shelf behind me. It's a fascinating view in to the mind of the 1800's American Christian, that is if you like American history connected with Mormonism, but a boring read.

    The shady and shaky cult, known as the LDS & Mormon church, are the next perpetuators of this lie. On April 6th 1830 Joseph Smith Jr. & Oliver Cowdery founded the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints after transcribing the Book of Mormon from what they called the Golden Plates. Later we would find out that the book of Mormon was actually written mostly by a man named Sidney Rigdon - who was a friend of Cowdery - some time durring 1826 - 1827. The book of Mormon is a book of false history pretending to be a new Christian scripture - it has never come good on it's claims. Among which is our topic - the Native American Tribes as Israelites.

    I know this because because I grew up in the LDS church and now I'm currently a proud Ex-Mormon.

    Alright, time for the claims.

    America was technically founded by the Israelites — No, there is no physical or written evidence that Israelites ever came to America before their immigration.

    Phoenicians came to America during their civilizations sea faring period — No, there is also no written or physical evidence that this took place.

    The Phoenicians sailers used their own legends of sea dwelling monsters to conceal what they were doing in the atlantic — This is true, however, given that they were not the only people sailing on the Atlantic from 1200BCE to their final decline around 65BCE it can hardly be said that they could have moved to America without notice. In fact the idea is ludicrous.

    The Phoenician sailers could have kept America & their voyages to it a secret — No, with the kind of resources it would take to voyage across the Atlantic it would have been impossible to keep under wraps let alone keeping several voyages over a huge span of time.

    The Phoenicians & the Israelites mingled with the people that were already on the continent to produce what we now know as Native Americans — No, a large scale investigation in to the genetic code of people from all around the world, including the Native American Tribes, has been conducted to find the genetic markers in our DNA. The Native Americans have all been found to be lacking any thing even closely related to Phoenicians or Israelites genetic markers.

    The Norse-Germanic People tried to settle in America - This is true, yet it was unsuccessful because of the time it took people to travel between what was then [1100CE - ?] Vinland & the rest of Greenland, Iceland, Norway & Sweden. This travel time made it hard to communicate with those who were funding the expeditions. So much so that by the time they would get back to their respective kingdoms the political powers that had sent them in the first place had shifted, died or were killed.

    The rest is ether true or true enough, you can decide for your self. In other words - ST, I'm calling you out on your BS.

    - cheers WTH
     
         
    Last edited by ImmaculateShadow; 11-16-2012 at 12:25 AM. Reason: spelling & picture

  2. #2
    J & A YowYan's Avatar
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    Re: Native American Israelites

    I dismissed Shinobi Train's theory too, I thought it to be another lie created by the zionists or something. Never heard about it before.

    No offense to Shinobi Train, we all speculate sometimes.
     
         

  3. #3
    Member GEIxBattleRifle's Avatar
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    Re: Native American Israelites

    I almost died of a heart attack when I read that yesterday.

    It seriously doesn't hurt to crack a couple books open and read
     
         

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    J & A YowYan's Avatar
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    Re: Native American Israelites

    It annoys me to no end to see educative/interesting threads like these being ignored and vs/top 10 ninja threads being crowded with people. Funny..
     
         

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    Member GEIxBattleRifle's Avatar
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    Re: Native American Israelites

    ^ For threads like these to hit hottest just go to a politics forum they hit hot thread there ALL the time
     
         

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    Re: Native American Israelites

    meh.
     
         

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    Re: Native American Israelites

    i actually read this thread and found it interesting because i also remember that post from ST, and i don't know much about america history so it's good to know from various sources.
     
         

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    Heathen. ImmaculateShadow's Avatar
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    Re: Native American Israelites

    Quote Originally Posted by GEIxBattleRifle View Post
    I almost died of a heart attack when I read that yesterday.

    It seriously doesn't hurt to crack a couple books open and read
    Sursly folks.

    Quote Originally Posted by YowYan View Post
    It annoys me to no end to see educative/interesting threads like these being ignored and vs/top 10 ninja threads being crowded with people. Funny..
    Maybe I should write a history of the Ninja thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by kmrasengan View Post
    i actually read this thread and found it interesting because i also remember that post from ST, and i don't know much about america history so it's good to know from various sources.
    Word, thanks for reading!
     
         

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    Senior Member ~WastelandSociety~'s Avatar
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    Re: Native American Israelites

    I always been fascinated by these type of things,even though it could be true or false.

    Like seeing evidence of buildings and carvings that were made by Crusades with there symbols that were found in America.


    Many believing that they hide the holy grail here somewhere.
     
         

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    Heathen. ImmaculateShadow's Avatar
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    Re: Native American Israelites

    Quote Originally Posted by ~WastelandSociety~ View Post
    I always been fascinated by these type of things,even though it could be true or false.

    Like seeing evidence of buildings and carvings that were made by Crusades with there symbols that were found in America.


    Many believing that they hide the holy grail here somewhere.
    No.

    Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
     
         

  11. #11
    J & A YowYan's Avatar
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    Re: Native American Israelites

    Quote Originally Posted by ImmaculateShadow View Post
    No.

    Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
     
         

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    The Devil's Advocate Shinobi Train's Avatar
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    Re: Native American Israelites

    I'm not sure if I should be flattered or not. Okay, like I already said in that thread, history is written by the conqueror. So first one must realize that Israel is no longer a conqueror, they used to be at one time, but not anymore. So how do we sort the truth out? Well, technically that's impossible...unless you're very determined of course and disregard everything anyone's ever told you. You see, you can't search for truth unless you eliminate all the lies, but you don't know what is truth or lie, so you just have to get rid of all of it.

    I actually don't study this topic myself because it's already been done by trustworthy people, my father among them. First of all, the Israelites didn't "mingle" with the Phoenicians, they were the Phoenicians. A lot of historians are just completely baffled by who the Phoenicians were since they seemed to come out of nowhere and left hardly any trace. They were a sea empire for the most part, and very cunning.

    They knew that if the rest of Europe discovered the other continents then they'd try to fight for it, so to keep that from happening they spread a rumor about sea monsters lurking in the deep oceans not that far from the coast. Why do you think people of those times stuck so close to the land back then? I must admit that it's very clever to prey on people's lack of education, I enjoy doing it myself at times.

    Now, the part that really sells all of this is something known as the Los Lunas stone.



    Let's have a show of hands to see if anyone knows what language that is...anybody? No one knows? Darn, no one cares about education these days...>.> It's Paleo (ancient) Hebrew. Yes, the same language that the Creator wrote the Ten Commandments in. There's also something else that's special about this stone...it bears the true name of the Creator. Yep, you heard me, that one. Many like to claim that the LLS is a hoax...but that's sad because people have only recently actually figured out what that language even is.

    There's lots of other overwhelming evidents, but I'd kinda' have to dig it all back up because it's sorta' buried a little and scattered about. No one cares about this topic anymore because there's no dispute about it, you can't argue with truth so no one even talks about it much these days. Or I guess not among the Natsarim at least, obviously schools aren't there to educate people.

    If you must know more, here's a great article on it: http://www.fossilizedcustoms.com/tribes.html

    If that's not enough, I'll see if I can find the rest of the stuff on this topic.
     
         
    Last edited by Shinobi Train; 11-16-2012 at 01:34 AM.

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    Re: Native American Israelites

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinobi Train View Post
    I'm not sure if I should be flattered or not. Okay, like I already said in that thread, history is written by the conqueror. So first one must realize that Israel is no longer a conqueror, they used to be at one time, but not anymore. So how do we sort the truth out? Well, technically that's impossible...unless you're very determined of course and disregard everything anyone's ever told you. You see, you can't search for truth unless you eliminate all the lies, but you don't know what is truth or lie, so you just have to get rid of all of it.

    I actually don't study this topic myself because it's already been done by trustworthy people, my father among them. First of all, the Israelites didn't "mingle" with the Phoenicians, they were the Phoenicians. A lot of historians are just completely baffled by who the Phoenicians were since they seemed to come out of nowhere and left hardly any trace. They were a sea empire for the most part, and very cunning.

    They knew that if the rest of Europe discovered the other continents then they'd try to fight for it, so to keep that from happening they spread a rumor about sea monsters lurking in the deep oceans not that far from the coast. Why do you think people of those times stuck so close to the land back then? I must admit that it's very clever to prey on people's lack of education, I enjoy doing it myself at times.

    Now, the part that really sells all of this is something known as the Los Lunas stone.



    Let's have a show of hands to see if anyone knows what language that is...anybody? No one knows? Darn, no one cares about education these days...>.> It's Paleo (ancient) Hebrew. Yes, the same language that the Creator wrote the Ten Commandments in. There's also something else that's special about this stone...it bears the true name of the Creator. Yep, you heard me, that one. Many like to claim that the LLS is a hoax...but that's sad because people have only recently actually figured out what that language even is.

    There's lots of other overwhelming evidents, but I'd kinda' have to dig it all back up because it's sorta' buried a little and scattered about. No one cares about this topic anymore because there's no dispute about it, you can't argue with truth so no one even talks about it much these days. Or I guess not among the Natsarim at least, obviously schools aren't there to educate people.

    If you must know more, here's a great article on it: http://www.fossilizedcustoms.com/tribes.html

    If that's not enough, I'll see if I can find the rest of the stuff on this topic.
    K, so I'm jewish(I don't practice or anything, so some of my history might be a bit shaky) and when I went to hebrew school on sundays as a kid this is what they told me about the lost tribes.

    Eh, if we're talking about ancient "isrealites" (or jews, and don't give me some cocomanie shit that todays jews aren't the same, I've read those articles and they're all bs) shouldn't we kinda take their version of history into consideration? As far I know(and no I have no idea what that language is) this is the letters the ancient jews used to write(and still do in israel) with the aleph-beit, http://www.forumancientcoins.com/num...ges/hebrew.gif and there is no history to prove where they went after this.

    There are a few versions of where they went after what happened, but the history taught is that 10 tribes(or to be more accurate 9 and a half) were lost(even the time on when they are lost is shaky) and there are varying opinions on whether or not they will ever return(theres also a lot of lore about where they are, I'm just shaky about it).

    I can assure you if you asked any jew who know's the taught history better than I do, he would 100% disagree with everything you posted there, and could completely take apart what you posted, I'm not learned enough to do that, but I know that is not the language the isrealites wrote in.
     
         

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    Re: Native American Israelites

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Hasashi~ View Post
    K, so I'm jewish(I don't practice or anything, so some of my history might be a bit shaky) and when I went to hebrew school on sundays as a kid this is what they told me about the lost tribes.

    Eh, if we're talking about ancient "isrealites" (or jews, and don't give me some cocomanie shit that todays jews aren't the same, I've read those articles and they're all bs) shouldn't we kinda take their version of history into consideration? As far I know(and no I have no idea what that language is) this is the letters the ancient jews used to write(and still do in israel) with the aleph-beit, http://www.forumancientcoins.com/num...ges/hebrew.gif and there is no history to prove where they went after this.

    There are a few versions of where they went after what happened, but the history taught is that 10 tribes(or to be more accurate 9 and a half) were lost(even the time on when they are lost is shaky) and there are varying opinions on whether or not they will ever return(theres also a lot of lore about where they are, I'm just shaky about it).

    I can assure you if you asked any jew who know's the taught history better than I do, he would 100% disagree with everything you posted there, and could completely take apart what you posted, I'm not learned enough to do that, but I know that is not the language the isrealites wrote in.
    Okay, the Jewish people today, in the land of Israel, are actually two tribes. We refer to them as the older brother. The other ten tribes are scattered throughout the Earth after being carried off for the final time by the Assyrians. The Yahudim (Jews if you must, though that's a term of scorn used first by the Romans who called them Yahus, then by the Nazis and so forth who called them Jews), stayed in the land and may have been scattered a little, but returned.

    That is modern Hebrew, not the original script. Some refer to it as Babylonian Hebrew, but I'd need to find out from some sources to see if it is Babylonian Hebrew or not.

    The Yahudim do not know who they are, so of course they'd disagree with me...agreeing with the Natsarim would shatter everything they believe in. One day the two houses will be restored in the hand of the Messiah, but right now they deny Him. It's not their fault, so I hold nothing against the Yahudim, but they are decieved, just like everyone else. ^_^ It's okay though, when they meet the Messiah it will be just like Yoseph (Joseph) in Egypt when he revealed himself to his brothers...in fact, that was a shadow of what is going to happen at the end.

    When the Messiah reveals Himself just like Yoseph did, the Yahudim will unite with the younger brother, the ten lost tribes of Israel, or as we call ourselves now, the Natsarim.
     
         

  15. #15
    uzamaki goku Uzamki Seerar's Avatar
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    Re: Native American Israelites

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinobi Train View Post
    Okay, the Jewish people today, in the land of Israel, are actually two tribes. We refer to them as the older brother. The other ten tribes are scattered throughout the Earth after being carried off for the final time by the Assyrians. The Yahudim (Jews if you must, though that's a term of scorn used first by the Romans who called them Yahus, then by the Nazis and so forth who called them Jews), stayed in the land and may have been scattered a little, but returned.

    That is modern Hebrew, not the original script. Some refer to it as Babylonian Hebrew, but I'd need to find out from some sources to see if it is Babylonian Hebrew or not.

    The Yahudim do not know who they are, so of course they'd disagree with me...agreeing with the Natsarim would shatter everything they believe in. One day the two houses will be restored in the hand of the Messiah, but right now they deny Him. It's not their fault, so I hold nothing against the Yahudim, but they are decieved, just like everyone else. ^_^ It's okay though, when they meet the Messiah it will be just like Yoseph (Joseph) in Egypt when he revealed himself to his brothers...in fact, that was a shadow of what is going to happen at the end.

    When the Messiah reveals Himself just like Yoseph did, the Yahudim will unite with the younger brother, the ten lost tribes of Israel, or as we call ourselves now, the Natsarim.
    Jew used to be a race and dont tell me why jewish people made the name of their religoun the same as their race not offending anyone but its kinda confusing anyway jews the race where like arabs but paler and where like a brother race and where very celever seriously allah swt or god gave them this gift because they where the race that where blessed the most on earth think about it they escaped ramesane the 2nd which in the quran he is named firoun and well you have to read the story look at my sig anyway the jews escaped him from egypt and well sort endeded up at jearuslem which was occupied by some other bad people and musa (peace be upon him) and other jews fought and claimed that land and they had pretty much looots of prophets sent to them but and dont get me started about kharzians anyway sorry for deraling this post the jews that are present in israel are not the same as the past they are european and the other ones are scattered around the earth some are still there and they are rare to find nowadays but if you look at the elites many are their and they believe themselves to be like royalite and pure blood and very rich and are in control of many things
     
         

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    The Devil's Advocate Shinobi Train's Avatar
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    Re: Native American Israelites

    Quote Originally Posted by Uzamki Seerar View Post
    Jew used to be a race and dont tell me why jewish people made the name of their religoun the same as their race not offending anyone but its kinda confusing anyway jews the race where like arabs but paler and where like a brother race and where very celever seriously allah swt or god gave them this gift because they where the race that where blessed the most on earth think about it they escaped ramesane the 2nd which in the quran he is named firoun and well you have to read the story look at my sig anyway the jews escaped him from egypt and well sort endeded up at jearuslem which was occupied by some other bad people and musa (peace be upon him) and other jews fought and claimed that land and they had pretty much looots of prophets sent to them but and dont get me started about kharzians anyway sorry for deraling this post the jews that are present in israel are not the same as the past they are european and the other ones are scattered around the earth some are still there and they are rare to find nowadays but if you look at the elites many are their and they believe themselves to be like royalite and pure blood and very rich and are in control of many things
    :rofl: Oh wow, it's worse than I thought, ignorance in the world is astounding, but I guess its not your fault. Look, there was no "J" until just about 500 years ago or so, no language had a "J"...that's the first issue. Secondly, the Jewish people know that they aren't Jews, they mistakenly call themselve Yehudim when it should be Yahudim, but that's an attempt to destroy the Creator's name. You see, Yah is a shortened version of His name.

    However, the Yahudim have decided to keep the Father's name a secret, and most don't even know what it is anymore. They did that because it was being made fun of by the Romans, so to keep that from happening they hide the name and swore never to use it again. In fact, there was a death penalty for pronouncing the name. That's actually why the High Priest tore his robes when the Messiah was being judged...calling yourself the son of Elohim was blasphemy, but pronouncing His name was even worse.

    This thread is really enlightening...I see just how much truth has been hidden, it's really depressing actually, but I guess necessary.
     
         

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    Heathen. ImmaculateShadow's Avatar
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    Re: Native American Israelites

    Quote Originally Posted by YowYan View Post
    Oh, I can imagine quite a bit. I am after all a polytheist & a pantheist. However I also understand that there are certain things that we can know. History is quite verifiable up to a point through archeology & linguistics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinobi Train View Post
    I'm not sure if I should be flattered or not. Okay, like I already said in that thread, history is written by the conqueror. So first one must realize that Israel is no longer a conqueror, they used to be at one time, but not anymore. So how do we sort the truth out? Well, technically that's impossible...unless you're very determined of course and disregard everything anyone's ever told you. You see, you can't search for truth unless you eliminate all the lies, but you don't know what is truth or lie, so you just have to get rid of all of it.

    I actually don't study this topic myself because it's already been done by trustworthy people, my father among them. First of all, the Israelites didn't "mingle" with the Phoenicians, they were the Phoenicians.
    Alright, since your making the positive statement about history could you please back it up? What source[s] do you have that the Phoenicians & the Israelites were the same people?

    I believe you read the Bible — no? Well, in 2 Chronicles 2:14 we can see that the topic is clearly a Phoenician man by the name of Hiram, who is form Tyre. Eventually we see in 1 Kings that Jezebel is from Tyre and that Elijah, in an attempt to reform, conveys that there should be no more foreign wives taken by the kings of Israel in reference to Jezebel.

    It appears as if they were not the same people. King Ahab was king of ten tribes but not the Phoenicians. I realize that the Bible is not the most reliable source yet it can't be denied that it is at least a collaborative source.

    A lot of historians are just completely baffled by who the Phoenicians were since they seemed to come out of nowhere and left hardly any trace. They were a sea empire for the most part, and very cunning.

    They knew that if the rest of Europe discovered the other continents then they'd try to fight for it, so to keep that from happening they spread a rumor about sea monsters lurking in the deep oceans not that far from the coast. Why do you think people of those times stuck so close to the land back then? I must admit that it's very clever to prey on people's lack of education, I enjoy doing it myself at times.

    Now, the part that really sells all of this is something known as the Los Lunas stone.



    Let's have a show of hands to see if anyone knows what language that is...anybody? No one knows? Darn, no one cares about education these days...>.> It's Paleo (ancient) Hebrew. Yes, the same language that the Creator wrote the Ten Commandments in. There's also something else that's special about this stone...it bears the true name of the Creator. Yep, you heard me, that one. Many like to claim that the LLS is a hoax...but that's sad because people have only recently actually figured out what that language even is.
    Oh yes, I have seen the LLDS plenty of times. As I said before I was raised Mormon and they are no strangers to propagating hoaxes.

    What we know about the LLDS is that it was "discovered" by a professor of Archeology at the University of New Mexico named Frank Hibben in 1933, who claims the discovery was made by another who led him too it — who’s name is completely unmentioned, surprise, surprise — in 1880CE. Essentually this is an unverifiable claim. We have no way of verifying it's existence back then. Can we even trust Hibben?

    During his career professor Hibben had fabricated, in some cases completely, information about pre-Clovis sights to fit his own model of pre-Clovis migration patterns. Namely:

    The Mystery of Sandia Cave, New Yorker, 71(16):66-83.
    A Chronological Problem Presented by Sandia Cave, New Mexico. American Antiquity, 1940a 5(3):200-201.

    The other strange thing about Hibben is this supposed discovery date of 1933 for the LLDS. This is due to the fact that this was the same year that he graduated from Princeton University. Strange that he would, fresh out of a Bachelors program of Archaeology, haphazardly find an unknown individual in NM — who should forever be unnamed — to lead him to the very sight of a stone carving that would — if verified — turn the entire field of know world history on it's head.

    It just goes on like this ...

    When was the abjad writing system of Paleo-Hebrew used by the Israelites? Around and in-between the 10th to 5th centuries BCE until the Israelites adopted the Aramaic alphabet as their writing system for use with Hebrew. This means that there would have been a 500 year window for the creation of the carving. This isn’t the issue, the issue is the time period at which this would have had to have taken place. Namely the aforementioned centuries. All we have to do is look to see what the people who had been living in the Americas since at least 15,000BCE were doing at the time. After you do this it becomes clear that there is no way that these imaginary Phoenician-Israelites could have come here over a 500 year period and not made more of a mark on the pre-existing peoples living in North or South America.

    Again, notice that the writing system of Paleo-Hebrew is abjad, which means that each symbol always or usually stands for a consonant, leaving the reader to supply the appropriate vowel from memory. This makes the language of that time period nearly impossible to reconstruct. So is the writing on the LLDS an accurate portrayal of Hebrew during the 10th - 5th centuries BCE? No one could tell you. It’s literally impossible to know. Remember that next when you read claims about what the text on the LLDS says.

    This is the sort of thing that you will always run in to when critiquing claims of this Phoenician-Israelites-Native American ilk.

    There's lots of other overwhelming evidents, but I'd kinda' have to dig it all back up because it's sorta' buried a little and scattered about. No one cares about this topic anymore because there's no dispute about it, you can't argue with truth so no one even talks about it much these days. Or I guess not among the Natsarim at least, obviously schools aren't there to educate people.

    If you must know more, here's a great article on it: http://www.fossilizedcustoms.com/tribes.html

    If that's not enough, I'll see if I can find the rest of the stuff on this topic.
    First and for most, there are plenty of people who would care to see this topic, and all of it’s false claims to evidence, elevated to the perspective of truth before the public eye. Why? Because it would validate — to some extent — Mormonism along with a lot of other Christian related beliefs & fabricated histories. Glenn Beck any one? Beck has said much of what you are saying here on National television. And he’s a Mormon who, like most Mormons, live in a bubble of ignorance and American Folk lore coming strait out of the 1800’s.

    I went to the link but I didn’t see much in the way of evidence. Mostly supposition based on what ifs. Not surprised.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinobi Train View Post
    Okay, the Jewish people today, in the land of Israel, are actually two tribes. We refer to them as the older brother. The other ten tribes are scattered throughout the Earth after being carried off for the final time by the Assyrians. The Yahudim (Jews if you must, though that's a term of scorn used first by the Romans who called them Yahus, then by the Nazis and so forth who called them Jews), stayed in the land and may have been scattered a little, but returned.

    That is modern Hebrew, not the original script. Some refer to it as Babylonian Hebrew, but I'd need to find out from some sources to see if it is Babylonian Hebrew or not.

    The Yahudim do not know who they are, so of course they'd disagree with me...agreeing with the Natsarim would shatter everything they believe in. One day the two houses will be restored in the hand of the Messiah, but right now they deny Him. It's not their fault, so I hold nothing against the Yahudim, but they are decieved, just like everyone else. ^_^ It's okay though, when they meet the Messiah it will be just like Yoseph (Joseph) in Egypt when he revealed himself to his brothers...in fact, that was a shadow of what is going to happen at the end.

    When the Messiah reveals Himself just like Yoseph did, the Yahudim will unite with the younger brother, the ten lost tribes of Israel, or as we call ourselves now, the Natsarim.
    I only have one thing to say to this —

     
         

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    Re: Native American Israelites

    Quote Originally Posted by ImmaculateShadow View Post

    Sursly folks.


    Maybe I should write a history of the Ninja thread.


    Word, thanks for reading!
    I agree with you on what you said I don't disagree with you
     
         

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    Re: Native American Israelites

    -_- I know im going to get crap for not being PC but regardless I will say it. Native Americans did not originate in the Americas a good amount of people who are Native deny they are from Asian roots or originate from Eastern Asia (Mongolia) etc. But regardless many think their race originated in America. Which is not true as it is well known that in sometime during the Ice Age Mongolians ("Native Americans") crossed the ocean and settled in America. But it has been known that Scandinavian vikings and many other Varangians came to the Americas even before any natives made the migration. Leading Anthropologist even said that Caucasian peoples made a presence far before any "Mongols" and I use that term loosely to refer to the "Native" per say. So in conclusion what that guy said whether it has to do with his Mormon faith or not was wrong about Israelis being here but I wouldn't know if natives where of Israeli decent but it is easily dis proven that Israelites where in America. IMO that mormon theology is blatantly racist and prejudiced... and also quite ilogical. But who knows i don't
     
         

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    Re: Native American Israelites

    Quote Originally Posted by GEIxBattleRifle View Post
    I agree with you on what you said I don't disagree with you
    Thanks for the heads up - I totally understand. I was trying to emphasis how much I agreed with you on the amount of reading that's lacking here. Thanks for reading my posts. :hey:
     
         
    Last edited by ImmaculateShadow; 11-17-2012 at 08:54 AM.

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    Re: Native American Israelites

    I hope you guys enjoy this video of Holy Grail in America video of the Templar knights.




    P.s


    Also enjoy.


    It was either Asians who came across a near-Arctic land bridge, the descendants of whom became the Native Americans or Vikings led by Leif Erikson.
     
         
    Last edited by ~WastelandSociety~; 11-16-2012 at 08:00 PM.

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    Re: Native American Israelites

    Quote Originally Posted by ~WastelandSociety~ View Post
    I hope you guys enjoy this video of Holy Grail in America video of the Templar knights.




    P.s


    Also enjoy.

    I will watch it. Thanks for sharing
     
         

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    Re: Native American Israelites

    Quote Originally Posted by ImmaculateShadow View Post

    Oh, I can imagine quite a bit. I am after all a polytheist & a pantheist. However I also understand that there are certain things that we can know. History is quite verifiable up to a point through archeology & linguistics.


    Alright, since your making the positive statement about history could you please back it up? What source[s] do you have that the Phoenicians & the Israelites were the same people?

    I believe you read the Bible — no? Well, in 2 Chronicles 2:14 we can see that the topic is clearly a Phoenician man by the name of Hiram, who is form Tyre. Eventually we see in 1 Kings that Jezebel is from Tyre and that Elijah, in an attempt to reform, conveys that there should be no more foreign wives taken by the kings of Israel in reference to Jezebel.

    It appears as if they were not the same people. King Ahab was king of ten tribes but not the Phoenicians. I realize that the Bible is not the most reliable source yet it can't be denied that it is at least a collaborative source.


    Oh yes, I have seen the LLDS plenty of times. As I said before I was raised Mormon and they are no strangers to propagating hoaxes.

    What we know about the LLDS is that it was "discovered" by a professor of Archeology at the University of New Mexico named Frank Hibben in 1933, who claims the discovery was made by another who led him too it — who’s name is completely unmentioned, surprise, surprise — in 1880CE. Essentually this is an unverifiable claim. We have no way of verifying it's existence back then. Can we even trust Hibben?

    During his career professor Hibben had fabricated, in some cases completely, information about pre-Clovis sights to fit his own model of pre-Clovis migration patterns. Namely:

    The Mystery of Sandia Cave, New Yorker, 71(16):66-83.
    A Chronological Problem Presented by Sandia Cave, New Mexico. American Antiquity, 1940a 5(3):200-201.

    The other strange thing about Hibben is this supposed discovery date of 1933 for the LLDS. This is due to the fact that this was the same year that he graduated from Princeton University. Strange that he would, fresh out of a Bachelors program of Archaeology, haphazardly find an unknown individual in NM — who should forever be unnamed — to lead him to the very sight of a stone carving that would — if verified — turn the entire field of know world history on it's head.

    It just goes on like this ...

    When was the abjad writing system of Paleo-Hebrew used by the Israelites? Around and in-between the 10th to 5th centuries BCE until the Israelites adopted the Aramaic alphabet as their writing system for use with Hebrew. This means that there would have been a 500 year window for the creation of the carving. This isn’t the issue, the issue is the time period at which this would have had to have taken place. Namely the aforementioned centuries. All we have to do is look to see what the people who had been living in the Americas since at least 15,000BCE were doing at the time. After you do this it becomes clear that there is no way that these imaginary Phoenician-Israelites could have come here over a 500 year period and not made more of a mark on the pre-existing peoples living in North or South America.

    Again, notice that the writing system of Paleo-Hebrew is abjad, which means that each symbol always or usually stands for a consonant, leaving the reader to supply the appropriate vowel from memory. This makes the language of that time period nearly impossible to reconstruct. So is the writing on the LLDS an accurate portrayal of Hebrew during the 10th - 5th centuries BCE? No one could tell you. It’s literally impossible to know. Remember that next when you read claims about what the text on the LLDS says.

    This is the sort of thing that you will always run in to when critiquing claims of this Phoenician-Israelites-Native American ilk.


    First and for most, there are plenty of people who would care to see this topic, and all of it’s false claims to evidence, elevated to the perspective of truth before the public eye. Why? Because it would validate — to some extent — Mormonism along with a lot of other Christian related beliefs & fabricated histories. Glenn Beck any one? Beck has said much of what you are saying here on National television. And he’s a Mormon who, like most Mormons, live in a bubble of ignorance and American Folk lore coming strait out of the 1800’s.

    I went to the link but I didn’t see much in the way of evidence. Mostly supposition based on what ifs. Not surprised.


    I only have one thing to say to this —

    Alrighty then, I do want to make note, however, that you are an atheist (correct me if I'm wrong). Also, you seem to have a very strong hatred for truth, as most atheists do. I just want to make that clear; you see, every person has two eyes, one of darkness and one of light. The eye of darkness sees only what it wants to, the eye of light only sees the truth. Many prefer the eye of darkness simply because it's what they wish to see, it fits in their own little world.

    Here is a link to a google search that you can study for yourself, I have no desire to waste time pasting the information here. If it's not worth anything to you to seek truth, then handing it to you will do no good.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=scat...hrome&ie=UTF-8

    If you do not trust the source, then feel free to spend the next ten years pouring over the hundreds of documents, encyclopedias and so forth that great men have already gone over. Be my guest.

    As for the meme you posted...are you not doing the same? Understand that debating is a two edged sword, it always cuts both ways.
     
         

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    Re: Native American Israelites

    Quote Originally Posted by -Obito Uchiha- View Post
    -_- I know im going to get crap for not being PC but regardless I will say it. Native Americans did not originate in the Americas a good amount of people who are Native deny they are from Asian roots or originate from Eastern Asia (Mongolia) etc. But regardless many think their race originated in America. Which is not true as it is well known that in sometime during the Ice Age Mongolians ("Native Americans") crossed the ocean and settled in America. But it has been known that Scandinavian vikings and many other Varangians came to the Americas even before any natives made the migration. Leading Anthropologist even said that Caucasian peoples made a presence far before any "Mongols" and I use that term loosely to refer to the "Native" per say. So in conclusion what that guy said whether it has to do with his Mormon faith or not was wrong about Israelis being here but I wouldn't know if natives where of Israeli decent but it is easily dis proven that Israelites where in America. IMO that mormon theology is blatantly racist and prejudiced... and also quite ilogical. But who knows i don't
    Well actually much of what you said isn't controversial at all.

    However I would take what you mentioned about the Caucasian people in America during the decline of the last Glaciation period and criticize the view that their numbers in America were greater than a handful. Maybe two.


    Quote Originally Posted by Shinobi Train View Post
    Alrighty then, I do want to make note, however, that you are an atheist (correct me if I'm wrong). Also, you seem to have a very strong hatred for truth, as most atheists do. I just want to make that clear; you see, every person has two eyes, one of darkness and one of light. The eye of darkness sees only what it wants to, the eye of light only sees the truth. Many prefer the eye of darkness simply because it's what they wish to see, it fits in their own little world.
    No, I am not an atheist.

    I am a Norse-Germanic Heathen — which in my case equates to a Pantheist, Animist & a Polytheist — to give you a brief run down.

    Thank you for the gift of your own personal philosophy, it wasn't that much different than my own growing up as both Mormon and Christian.

    A gift for a gift. Here is my own philosophy for you — When you walk on the side of intuition and faith more than you do logic then you are trudging through the ditch of unbearable heat, though when you walk on the side of logic and reason more than you do intuition then you are stammering through a ditch of bitter cold. The trick is to use an equal amount of both at all times so as to walk easily in the middle of the road and out of the ditches.


    Here is a link to a google search that you can study for yourself, I have no desire to waste time pasting the information here. If it's not worth anything to you to seek truth, then handing it to you will do no good.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=scat...hrome&ie=UTF-8
    Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run away from those who have found it.

    You and your religious sect think you know what true reality is?

    If, however, you discover you are wrong & realize that no where is it writ LARGE that you should know the absolute truth about life, then please, don't feel ashamed to send me a message.


    If you do not trust the source, then feel free to spend the next ten years pouring over the hundreds of documents, encyclopedias and so forth that great men have already gone over. Be my guest.
    I was 21 when I realized that didn't know any thing, despite all of my Christian & Mormon theological training. That was ten years ago now.

    I have seriously looked in to the subjects & stories of this kind further than most people care to dream. Suffice it to say I am not surprised by your lack of willingness to back up your claims. Most people of faith run away when faced with evidence.

    To be sure, I could post all the things you had wanted to but just can't seem to muster the will for. But what would be the point in posting any of that be just to simply knock it down myself? No, I wanted to talk directly to you.

    As for the meme you posted...are you not doing the same? Understand that debating is a two edged sword, it always cuts both ways.
    Not really, because what I've shown you here requires no blind submission. I don't ask you to believe me without question as you have done. In fact I welcome questioning. Why? Because if I am wrong on a matter of intuition or logic I don't want to be ignorant.

    Give me a fruitful error anytime, full of seeds, bursting with its own corrections. You can keep your sterile truth to yourself - Vilfredo Pareto
     
         

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