View Poll Results: Who would win?

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  • Tobirama

    12 28.57%
  • Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    30 71.43%
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  1. #26
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by USSJ Future Trunks View Post
    loooool massacre. tsunade alone is enough let alone two people above her. kakashis kamui outmatches any s/t tobirama had

    wheres this stated? oh yeah you made that up out of your ass

    where? show me a manga link of him being revered like that. wait you cant. meaning you made that up out of your ass
    That language. I shun you. I think you were at a lack of better words; it was my assumption, in all honesty how else do you think he could be second-best of the Senju clan, whereas the Senju clan was rivaled only by the Uchiha? I already gave up, remember?
     
         

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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by USSJ Future Trunks View Post
    naruto, obito, 4th raikage, maybe gaara
    Naruto: If Gai can land a Hirudora or whatever his special attack is in 8th gate battle is won, and he's not far behind in speed and maybe ahead in strength. Kakashi sucker-Kamui'ing Naruto ends it. Also, if Kakashi is going all out, I'm pretty sure he could cause immense psychological damage to his former student.

    Obito: Yeah, this one is true, but it could definitely go both ways.

    4th Raikage: Always thought this was an interesting matchup. Again, Gai is roughly on par in terms of strength and speed but has additional fancy attacks available to him in the form of Morning Peacock and Afternoon Tiger. Kakashi might be able to penetrate A's armor with a Raikiri/Raikunai (the attack is even called "Lightning Cutter") and in any case has Kamui and a decent amount of speed.

    Gaara: Doubt it.
     
         

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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    Naruto: If Gai can land a Hirudora or whatever his special attack is in 8th gate battle is won, and he's not far behind in speed and maybe ahead in strength. Kakashi sucker-Kamui'ing Naruto ends it. Also, if Kakashi is going all out, I'm pretty sure he could cause immense psychological damage to his former student.

    Obito: Yeah, this one is true, but it could definitely go both ways.

    4th Raikage: Always thought this was an interesting matchup. Again, Gai is roughly on par in terms of strength and speed but has additional fancy attacks available to him in the form of Morning Peacock and Afternoon Tiger. Kakashi might be able to penetrate A's armor with a Raikiri/Raikunai (the attack is even called "Lightning Cutter") and in any case has Kamui and a decent amount of speed.

    Gaara: Doubt it.
    I agree with you, except for the part on the Fourth Raikage. I personally think that Kakashi and Gai would win mid-diff, but Kakashi may end up getting himself killed.
     
         

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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnipotent View Post
    I agree with you, except for the part on the Fourth Raikage. I personally think that Kakashi and Gai would win mid-diff, but Kakashi may end up getting himself killed.
    What part?
     
         

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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    What part?
    The whole thing you wrote about the Fourth Raikage vs Gai and Kakashi. I doubt the Raikage would win that fight, that's what I'm saying.
     
         

  6. #31
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    I really like your posts here OP. Too bad some people USSJ can't respect that..or logic period.

    I think from what we've seen then obviously team 2 rapes, key word from what we've seen. Too bad some people USSJ ignore the obvious implications and common sense of people's power levels, just because they didn't use jutsu on screen. If we go by what Tobirama's been considered through the manga to be he could actually stand a chance by far.

    I liked how you put that Tobirama is one of the high level Senju's and actually compared with his brother which is usually overlooked and puts him at an even higher level. Even though Hashirama's completely out of his and 99% of the Narutoverse's league, it still counts and if we actually saw why he was so highly hyped to actually fight and stand against 20 shinobi on Kin/Gin's level, then he could actually win.
     
         

  7. #32
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnipotent View Post
    The whole thing you wrote about the Fourth Raikage vs Gai and Kakashi. I doubt the Raikage would win that fight, that's what I'm saying.
    I hope I didn't make it seem like I thought A would win. Either of them would be a decent match on their own, and Gai probably beats him in 7th Gate mode. If he follows the same pattern vs Kakashi as he did against Sasuke he's also probably dead, as Raikiri is stronger than Chidori and may even be specialized against Lightning based defenses (or offenses) and Kamui seems to be faster than Amaterasu. Given that Kakashi was keeping up with (several) V2 jinks pretty well where Sasuke couldn't (Bee's Lariat) it seems he might be faster as well.


    On a different note, Minato stated (vs Obito) that Kamui was on a different level to both his own (debateable) and the Nidaimes (more likely) respective S/T jutsu.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joki View Post
    If we go by what Tobirama's been considered through the manga to be he could actually stand a chance by far.

    I liked how you put that Tobirama is one of the high level Senju's and actually compared with his brother which is usually overlooked and puts him at an even higher level. Even though Hashirama's completely out of his and 99% of the Narutoverse's league, it still counts and if we actually saw why he was so highly hyped to actually fight and stand against 20 shinobi on Kin/Gin's level, then he could actually win.
    Seems there's a misconception here, the Kinkaku Force weren't made up exclusively of people on the level of bastardized Jinchuuriki with SO6P's personal items. It was named after a member of the KinGin bros because they were the leaders/most powerful members. The others were definitely skilled shinobi, just not quite that good.
     
         
    Last edited by Piratefish; 11-13-2012 at 08:26 AM.

  8. #33
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Joki View Post
    I really like your posts here OP. Too bad some people USSJ can't respect that..or logic period.

    I think from what we've seen then obviously team 2 rapes, key word from what we've seen. Too bad some people USSJ ignore the obvious implications and common sense of people's power levels, just because they didn't use jutsu on screen. If we go by what Tobirama's been considered through the manga to be he could actually stand a chance by far.

    I liked how you put that Tobirama is one of the high level Senju's and actually compared with his brother which is usually overlooked and puts him at an even higher level. Even though Hashirama's completely out of his and 99% of the Narutoverse's league, it still counts and if we actually saw why he was so highly hyped to actually fight and stand against 20 shinobi on Kin/Gin's level, then he could actually win.
    Thank you. I agree. Thanks again; I thought based on the fact alone that he was comparable to his brother when just about every other Senju (though likely overpowered themselves) was not. That puts Tobirama either in league with Hashirama (on a larger scale?) or in a league directly below Hashirama (on a smaller scale), and I think that alone would be enough for him to win this fight, regardless of his abilities.

    I never actually liked the part where he died against the Kinkaku Force. If he had taken Hiruzen, Danzo, and Kagami, they could've killed a few before any one of them were seriously injured and from that point on Edo Tensei is all that's needed (Hashirama is dead at this point).
     
         

  9. #34
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    I hope I didn't make it seem like I thought A would win. Either of them would be a decent match on their own, and Gai probably beats him in 7th Gate mode. If he follows the same pattern vs Kakashi as he did against Sasuke he's also probably dead, as Raikiri is stronger than Chidori and may even be specialized against Lightning based defenses (or offenses) and Kamui seems to be faster than Amaterasu. Given that Kakashi was keeping up with (several) V2 jinks pretty well where Sasuke couldn't (Bee's Lariat) it seems he might be faster as well.


    On a different note, Minato stated (vs Obito) that Kamui was on a different level to both his own (debateable) and the Nidaimes (more likely) respective S/T jutsu.
    Oh, *highfive* then. Yeah, Kakashi's first use of the Raikiri was when he was out of chakra but he still managed to cut through a lightning bolt with it; I doubt that the Raikage's shield can stand up to Kakashi's Raikiri when he's full of chakra, more experienced (he was what, 14 when he used it?). Kakashi got pretty beast for the battle against Tobi (before it was revealed he was Obito), I hope he doesn't disappoint.

    It's very unlikely that Tobirama got his S/T jutsu up to the level where Obito and Minato were, although I think had he been given 10 more years to live, he would have gotten farther (he was obsessed with perfecting himself). However, that means that both Minato and Obito would in turn be better, because Minato based his S/T off of Tobirama's jutsu and I'm assuming Obito based his S/T off of Minato's jutsu.
     
         

  10. #35
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnipotent View Post
    Oh, *highfive* then. Yeah, Kakashi's first use of the Raikiri was when he was out of chakra but he still managed to cut through a lightning bolt with it; I doubt that the Raikage's shield can stand up to Kakashi's Raikiri when he's full of chakra, more experienced (he was what, 14 when he used it?). Kakashi got pretty beast for the battle against Tobi (before it was revealed he was Obito), I hope he doesn't disappoint.

    It's very unlikely that Tobirama got his S/T jutsu up to the level where Obito and Minato were, although I think had he been given 10 more years to live, he would have gotten farther (he was obsessed with perfecting himself). However, that means that both Minato and Obito would in turn be better, because Minato based his S/T off of Tobirama's jutsu and I'm assuming Obito based his S/T off of Minato's jutsu.
    *highfive* but anyways, the point I was making was that Kakashi's Kamui is an S/T on a way higher level than Tobirama's, as Minato, while underrating his own technique, was likely an astute observer otherwise, and Kakashi's tech is basically the same as Obito's but longer ranged.
     
         

  11. #36
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    *highfive* but anyways, the point I was making was that Kakashi's Kamui is an S/T on a way higher level than Tobirama's, as Minato, while underrating his own technique, was likely an astute observer otherwise, and Kakashi's tech is basically the same as Obito's but longer ranged.
    I mean, if Tobirama didn't have his S/T to the extent that he was known more for his sensing jutsu than for his S/T jutsu, then his S/T jutsu must've been REALLY limited. Are you saying Kakashi's technique is better than Obito's? I do believe the left and right sharingan have different functions.
     
         

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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnipotent View Post
    I mean, if Tobirama didn't have his S/T to the extent that he was known more for his sensing jutsu than for his S/T jutsu, then his S/T jutsu must've been REALLY limited. Are you saying Kakashi's technique is better than Obito's? I do believe the left and right sharingan have different functions.
    Not better, it's more like they're two halves of a coin. Both can teleport others away (I'm pretty sure Obito can also teleport people partially like Kakashi does with Deidara's arm), while Obito can only target himself/stuff he's touching. Kakashi can target stuff he's looking at. They're basically equally good.

    I'm still waiting for Obito and Kakashi to work together and achieve their version of Susano'o. I bet it would be AWESOME. Kishi's even included some foreshadowing:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/602/17
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/602/18
    The eyes are even still linked, making such an occurence possible (as well as giving Obito a tactical advantage against Kakashi, even apart from emotional turmoil): http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/604/17
     
         

  13. #38
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    Not better, it's more like they're two halves of a coin. Both can teleport others away (I'm pretty sure Obito can also teleport people partially like Kakashi does with Deidara's arm), while Obito can only target himself/stuff he's touching. Kakashi can target stuff he's looking at. They're basically equally good.

    I'm still waiting for Obito and Kakashi to work together and achieve their version of Susano'o. I bet it would be AWESOME. Kishi's even included some foreshadowing:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/602/17
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/602/18
    The eyes are even still linked, making such an occurence possible (as well as giving Obito a tactical advantage against Kakashi, even apart from emotional turmoil): http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/604/17
    Woah, I didn't even notice this. The little panels that are focused specifically on Obito and Kakashi's eyes, http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/605/4 here's one. I'm not too interested in their Susanoo, because I doubt it will compare to Madara's EMS or even Sasuke's EMS. Shisui's eyes could've solved everybody's problems.
     
         

  14. #39
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnipotent View Post
    Woah, I didn't even notice this. The little panels that are focused specifically on Obito and Kakashi's eyes, http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/605/4 here's one. I'm not too interested in their Susanoo, because I doubt it will compare to Madara's EMS or even Sasuke's EMS. Shisui's eyes could've solved everybody's problems.
    I'm very interested if only to see if it's possible for them to create a DIMENSION CONTROLLING SPIRIT GUARIDAN. Also, because the versions of Kamui are so very different from Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi, I've no doubt Kamui-Susano'o would be completely unique as well.
     
         

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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    I'm very interested if only to see if it's possible for them to create a DIMENSION CONTROLLING SPIRIT GUARIDAN. Also, because the versions of Kamui are so very different from Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi, I've no doubt Kamui-Susano'o would be completely unique as well.
    That seems a little far-fetched in my opinion. So a Kamui Susanoo will just warp in and out of dimensions slashing everybody for fun? I like that idea
     
         

  16. #41
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by USSJ Future Trunks View Post
    loooool massacre. tsunade alone is enough let alone two people above her. kakashis kamui outmatches any s/t tobirama had

    wheres this stated? oh yeah you made that up out of your ass

    where? show me a manga link of him being revered like that. wait you cant. meaning you made that up out of your ass
    Tobirama was primarily known for his mastery of Water Release. He could perform powerful water-style techniques in areas that lacked bodies of water by creating his own water out of thin air or producing it from his mouth, and perform some of the most complex water-style techniques, such as the Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet Technique, with a single hand seal. This amongst other reasons is why he is revered as the greatest known Water Release manipulator in the series.

    Tobirama was also shown to have great physical prowess and a considerable amount of skill in the area of taijutsu, as well as good teamwork with his elder brother, Hashirama Senju.

    That answers your question.
     
         

  17. #42
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Izuna Kakashi Senju View Post
    Tobirama was primarily known for his mastery of Water Release. He could perform powerful water-style techniques in areas that lacked bodies of water by creating his own water out of thin air or producing it from his mouth, and perform some of the most complex water-style techniques, such as the Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet Technique, with a single hand seal. This amongst other reasons is why he is revered as the greatest known Water Release manipulator in the series.

    Tobirama was also shown to have great physical prowess and a considerable amount of skill in the area of taijutsu, as well as good teamwork with his elder brother, Hashirama Senju.

    That answers your question.
    Thanks for the save, although it was kinda late . Rep

    EDIT: It wont let me give you rep, it appears I already did
     
         

  18. #43
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnipotent View Post
    That seems a little far-fetched in my opinion. So a Kamui Susanoo will just warp in and out of dimensions slashing everybody for fun? I like that idea
    That's what I'm hoping, but not expecting...
     
         

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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    That's what I'm hoping, but not expecting...
    I think that'd be just unfair.
     
         

  20. #45
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    This is Kinkaku team time period? Yeah, Tobirama just revives his late brother Hashirama and the two of them rape their opponents up and down. Kakashi aint nothin vs the 1st.
     
         

  21. #46
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by ElectricClover View Post
    This is Kinkaku team time period? Yeah, Tobirama just revives his late brother Hashirama and the two of them rape their opponents up and down. Kakashi aint nothin vs the 1st.
    For Edo Tensei to work he has to either have prepared it beforehand or be able to kill one of his three opponents AND have enough time to complete the ritual. Tobirama's Edo Tensei is pretty weak besides, inferior to even Orochimaru's. I don't think Team 2 have any trouble even if he has prepared a (severely weakened) edo Hashirama.
     
         

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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Tobirama for obvious reason, this is stupid.
     
         

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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Temple View Post
    Tobirama for obvious reason, this is stupid.
    The obvious reasons of being both significantly weaker than Hashirama (though even he might have trouble with this combo) fighting three Kage-level shinobi where two have excellent teamwork, one of them able to match him in Suitonjutsu (or at least nearly) and far exceed him in S/T jutsu (according to Minato), one able to completely dominate him in taijutsu, and one able to destroy him in a single blow, dodge on a fantastic level, tank everything he's got anyway if the dodging doesn't work, AND heal the other two?

    The outcome DOES seem pretty obvious to me too, but we don't exactly seem to be on the same wavelength...
     
         

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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by ElectricClover View Post
    This is Kinkaku team time period? Yeah, Tobirama just revives his late brother Hashirama and the two of them rape their opponents up and down. Kakashi aint nothin vs the 1st.
    You do know that Edo Tensei takes prep time, right?
     
         

  25. #50
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Kakashi solo's with Kamui.

    LOL, no not going to be that guy.

    But yeah I think team 2 take this, but it certainly wouldn't be easy.

    We don't know a lot but based on what we know Tobirama has a s/t technique which from the way Minato talks about it is teleporting, probably somewhat similar to Obito's but not as fast and not going in to another dimension.
    So we can assume he can dodge fairly well.

    Tobirama could get away from Kamui with s/t. Kakashi's is nowhere near as fast as Obito's which Minato got away from, it's easy to tell when Kakashi is using it on you(see Deidara fight) you feel your body warping so Tobirama could teleport away from that.
    He also has Edo Tensei.
    Unknown who he can revive but presumably he would revive Uchiha clan members to fight against them rather than disgrace his own clan.
    His Suiton is apparently unmatched(say what you want about Kisame but he needs water or Samehada to be good)
    one of them able to match him in Suitonjutsu (or at least nearly)
    ^What? I assume you mean Kakashi? Water Wall isn't that good that's basically all he has, I doubt water is a good defense against water and Water Dragon has yet to be that good.

    Other than healing Tsunade wouldn't be that useful in this fight...


    I think team 2 would win mainly because Kakashi and Gai are just an epic duo and would overwhelm Tobirama, but it would be close.
     
         

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