Page 1 of 2 12 Last»
Results 1 to 25 of 34
  1. #1
    Member
    Status
    Senju Nuon is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    35
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Madara is a Master Psychologist

    Many are thinking that Obito turned evil becasue of Rin. While I agree her death is the catalyst, the last straw, i think we are missing the big picture of what has happened to Obito and what Madara is doing to Obito. I believe the way Madara has gone about turning Obito is the real reason why Obito goes along with the Moon eye plan and goes evil.

    Madara is one uber psychologist, and here is why I say this:

    Let me start off by saying madara is not asleep in chapter 603. The appearance of being dormant is part of his plan for converting Obito. More on that later.

    For now, in chapter 602 Madara planted a seed (no pun intended) in Obito by telling Obito about his grand plan to bring peace. Obito thought nothing of it, shrugged it off really, it was just some old man's crazy dream. Obito is more focused on getting back to his Team. This is madara's 1st mind game with Obito, tell him his plan from the beginning knowing Obito would reject it.


    Now in chapter (603) Obito's rehabilitation begins. I had thought this before like many others but now kishi confirmed it. Obito's sole motivation to get healthy is to see Rin and Kakashi. (Sidenote: I laughed seeing obito train because I kept imagining "eye of the tiger" from Rocky playing in the background. Anyone else?) In any case, his thoughts while training were of his teammates and more importantly his love/crush Rin. Seeing them again brought Obito hope and strength, which are 2 common themes in naruto. Unfortunatly, this will be his downfall.


    While Obito's training occurs, madara appears to be "asleep". But he isn't. That too is part of his plan to turn obito. Let's call it step 2 in his psychological plan. Madara does this for several reasons:

    1. To let Obito feel secure. No madara looking over Obito's shoulder. He allows Obito to think he can train without Madara knowing.

    2. To allow hope of escape to grow in obito. And this hope gives him motivation to train and become stronger. (see above rehabilitation/motivation explanation) An Obito with no Hope is useless.

    3. Madara"s leaves zetsu (zetsii for plural I guess) to attend to Obito. He left zetsu in his place for the following reasons:

    a) So obito has company. If madara would have left obito completely alone, he could have escaped or maybe even gone crazy being in solitary confinement. A crazy obito is of no use to madara's plans.

    b) To keep obito informed of madara's plans and to convince obito madara's intentions are good. This keeps the seed that madara planted in chapter 602 growing the back of obito's mind. Zetsu even plants another seed in Obito, that Dream world can revive the dead. And yet again Obito does not care about this.

    c) To be used by obito (mask zestu) when the time arises. Make no mistake, rin and kakashi being attacked is part of the plan.

    d) I think its no mistake that Madara left 3 Zetsu in his place, in a way they replace Rin, Kakashi, and the 4th. I think Mask Zetsu represents Kakashi, Obito and Mask Zetsu have that rivalry relationship, Mask zestu even flips him the bird. The other Zetsu in chapter 603 represents Rin, remember he starts to say the same words as Rin (We are here to watch you). The 3rd Zetsu represents to Fourth i believe, he one who has been like a teacher, mentoring him (although we never see the 3rd Zetsu). These 3 Zetsu are here to make Obito feel somewhat at home, in terms of having similar relationships around him.


    To recap, so far Madara has allowed obito to have hope in seeing his friends again, he has given him companions (3 Zetsu) to keep him sane, to motivate him to become stronger and continue to talk to him about Madara's plan, and he has given Obito time to heal, recover and let the seed (mooneye Plan) grow in Obito's mind.


    Now its on to the next phase: crush obito's dream and replace it with madara's dream (Moon eye Plan).

    In the end of the chapter, a zetsu appears and gives obito news of kakashi and rin being in danger. They are attacked by Mist village ninjas. (Wait a sec wasn't the mist controlled by madara at some point?) Why, yes it was. Madara has set up the battle that will have Obito witness Rin's death. And madara placed mask zetsu there to help obito escape and see it happen.

    Watching Rin die and witness kakashi not able to keep his promise will destroy Obito's dream/hope. Obito essentially put all his hope into one basket, Rin. He trained and got stronger with the sole motivation of seeing Rin again and being with her. And now she is gone, his reason for living the past hower long is gone, what does he have to go back to, nothing. Madara did not take away his, he took away his hope and dream. This is what drives Obito evil so to speak.

    Rin's death really does 2 things for Obito:
    1. Awakens the latent power of his Sharingan (Kamui)
    2. it reminds Obito of that old man's plan (Madara) for peace Chapter 602 and what Zestu said in this chapter: It can even Revive the dead.


    So now Obito's dream/hope of being with Rin has changed to using the Moon Eye's plan (Madara's Plan) to revive Rin. Madara knows that taking away something from someone (hope from Obito) is useless unless you have something to fill the void (Moon eye plan to bring peace and revive the dead).

    Madara also needed Obito to come to the conclusion of the moon eye plan on his own. He knew Obito was rebelious (what teenager isn't), and if he tried to force Obito to help, it would not have worked. So Madara had to find a way to let Obito think it was his own Idea to go along with the Moon Eye plan. Madara the Master pychologist at work.


    Now here are some questions to ponder on my theory:

    If Madara wasn't sleeping what was he doing? I believe the body that was sleeping was not Madara's actual Body, perhaps just an outer shell that looked like Madara, or a Zetsu that changed into him (maybe the third Zetsu that was supposedly outside). The real Madara was outside the cave, keeping his plans in motion. This chapter has to occur in the time period that Madara was secretly in control of the mist, and he set up mist Shinobi to be where Kakashi and Rin were going to be. Madara's plan was to kill both Kakashi and Rin so that Obito would be devastaved. But Kakashi survived somehow, maybe by Obito saving him even. This would explain why Obito does not fully blame kakashi for allowing Rin to die, because he is partially at fault too.



    And this leads us to the next question:



    What were Kakashi and Rin doing that they were attacked by Mist Shinobi? Kakashi is good Shinobi, and he is not going to just fall into a trap, and I don't believe Rin and Kakashi were attcked by Mist Shinobi while in the the Fire Country/Leaf Village. They were on a mission together. I'll have to research part one/early part 2, but weren't Kakashi and Rin both Anbu memebers? If so, Madara somehow made sure that both Kakashi and Rin were on a mission together where he could attack both. Madara set up the situation so that Danzou or the Hokage (we do not know if Rin and/or Kakashi were regular Anbu or Root) was forced to send Kakashi and Rin based on their unique abilities. They were only ones who could get the job done so to speak. The outcome of this mission was Rin's death, Kakashi and Obito's receiving their MS ability Kamui, and Kakashi quiting Anbu/or being dismissed from Anbu and returning to be a Jonin.


    There was a thread I saw this morning that i liked but I can't find it again. But here is a summery of the the idea behind the thread:

    Orruchimaro wants 1st Hokage DNA
    Zetsu wants Kakashi and Rin for the slaughter
    Orruchimaro and Zetsu make a deal

    Danzou wants Sharingan and 1 Hokage power
    Orrochimaru and Danzou strike a deal
    So, Danzou gets Orrochimaru to make him stronger, Orrochimaru gets the DNA he needs, and Zetsu got Rin and Kakashi where he needs them.


    Now I didn't completely agree with the theory, because I don't think Kakashi was ever a Root member, he was Anbu chosen by the Hokage. I just don't see Kakashi working for Root under their rules. Perhaps Rin was Root, and Kakashi was Anbu. And Rin asked Kakashi to help on a mission on Danzou's orders. That's the only way I think this theory could work. Otherwise they were both chosen for their unique abilities because the situation called for it.

    Sorry for the long post.
     
         

  2. #2
    Future Greatest Swordsman Straw Hat Zoro's Avatar
    Status
    Straw Hat Zoro is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Stuck between a Rock and a Hard place lol...
    Posts
    727
    Post Thanks / Like
    Looking for PICA!!!
     

    Re: Madara is a Master Psychologist

    Too long to read sorry lol
     
         

  3. #3
    Member I2ain2thunder's Avatar
    Status
    I2ain2thunder is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    35
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Madara is a Master Psychologist

    Im not sure on the whole anbu thing, can't even remember if that is true or not, but the rest of it is pretty spot on for what I think is going on too. You explained in depth what I and i'm sure many others are thinking, I left out a lot of in depth look at my theory because well I figure anyone intelligent enough to agree with it already figured out the minute details but nice work bro + rep
     
         

  4. #4
    Jesus Chris Is The Truth Prime Rib's Avatar
    Status
    Prime Rib is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    8,908
    Post Thanks / Like
    Love others and treat them how
    you would like to be treated
     

    Re: Madara is a Master Psychologist

    i stop reading the part when you said he was not asleep.
     
         

  5. #5
    Hellsing member Lentz's Avatar
    Status
    Lentz is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Posts
    3,905
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Madara is a Master Psychologist

    Naruto is the psychologist around here. He talks for 2 minutes, BOOM, you're changed.
     
         

  6. #6
    Member I2ain2thunder's Avatar
    Status
    I2ain2thunder is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    35
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Madara is a Master Psychologist

    Haha yeah that's why he's the best ninja ppl talk about his attacks but his psychology is better than the smartest people in the manga. He's the smartest fool out there.

    Haku dies zabuza is straight faced, naruto rants for 30 seconds zabuza is crying.
     
         

  7. #7
    OH LONG JOHNSON edo tensai wilmaso's Avatar
    Status
    edo tensai wilmaso is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    BRONX
    Posts
    1,903
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Madara is a Master Psychologist

    cool post , well written and articulated ...kudos.

    i only have on problem and it with the time frame, do you think that was madara or tobi in the kisame flashback.
     
         

  8. #8
    Sennin 6PathsofKami's Avatar
    Status
    6PathsofKami is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Amegakure
    Posts
    2,435
    Post Thanks / Like
    You can destroy the man but
    you can't destroy an idea.
     

    Re: Madara is a Master Psychologist

    Interesting theory enjoyed reading it
     
         

  9. #9
    Beginner GFXer Normal fanboy's Avatar
    Status
    Normal fanboy is online now
    Gender
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    SAO
    Posts
    622
    Post Thanks / Like
    Step into the mind of Logic.
     

    Re: Madara is a Master Psychologist

    this makes alot of sense love it
    +rep
     
         

  10. #10
    Member
    Status
    Senju Nuon is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    35
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Madara is a Master Psychologist

    Quote Originally Posted by edo tensai wilmaso View Post
    cool post , well written and articulated ...kudos.

    i only have on problem and it with the time frame, do you think that was madara or tobi in the kisame flashback.
    That's a good question. If you are reffering to the first cronological meeting between Kisame and masked Tobi where the mizukage was present, I think this is Madara for several reasons.

    That meeting had to have taken place during the whole bloody mist era, where the mist adapted methods similar to the uchiha killing each other for their eyes. This would be in line with Madara's era of the uchiha more than the era that Obito lived in. I don't think that the uchiha were killing each other for eyes while during obito time. It may have been one the conditions of the truce with the senju even. that meeting probably occured towards the end of the bloody mist.

    The fact that the masked tobi was controlling Mizukage through genjitsu leads me to believe it was madara as well. Obito as tobi has not once throughout part 2 used genjistu on anyone. If he was so powerfull back then to use genitsu on the mizukage why not use it against any of his opponants throughout act 2.

    I would probably say that Madara used a masked zetsu suit first to keep his identity hidden. And then Obito adopted the suit out of necessity, and just pretended to be Madara to kep the plans going.
     
         

  11. #11
    Member
    Status
    Senju Nuon is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    35
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Madara is a Master Psychologist

    Quote Originally Posted by I2ain2thunder View Post
    Im not sure on the whole anbu thing, can't even remember if that is true or not, but the rest of it is pretty spot on for what I think is going on too. You explained in depth what I and i'm sure many others are thinking, I left out a lot of in depth look at my theory because well I figure anyone intelligent enough to agree with it already figured out the minute details but nice work bro + rep
    I wans't to sure on the Anbu thing either, but I'm certain Kishi has hinted or flat out stated through others that at the very least Kakashi was Anbu. Rin is the real mystery, as we don't know too much about her.
     
         

  12. #12
    OH LONG JOHNSON edo tensai wilmaso's Avatar
    Status
    edo tensai wilmaso is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    BRONX
    Posts
    1,903
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Madara is a Master Psychologist

    Quote Originally Posted by Senju Nuon View Post
    That's a good question. If you are reffering to the first cronological meeting between Kisame and masked Tobi where the mizukage was present, I think this is Madara for several reasons.

    That meeting had to have taken place during the whole bloody mist era, where the mist adapted methods similar to the uchiha killing each other for their eyes. This would be in line with Madara's era of the uchiha more than the era that Obito lived in. I don't think that the uchiha were killing each other for eyes while during obito time. It may have been one the conditions of the truce with the senju even. that meeting probably occured towards the end of the bloody mist.

    The fact that the masked tobi was controlling Mizukage through genjitsu leads me to believe it was madara as well. Obito as tobi has not once throughout part 2 used genjistu on anyone. If he was so powerfull back then to use genitsu on the mizukage why not use it against any of his opponants throughout act 2.

    I would probably say that Madara used a masked zetsu suit first to keep his identity hidden. And then Obito adopted the suit out of necessity, and just pretended to be Madara to kep the plans going.
    Bro we share the same conscious field lmao

    I agree with you , but I always run into a problem , when Tobi reveals himself to kisame , kisame is surprised in a good way remembering his face. The problem with that it's I'm 100% sure that's Tobi but kisame recognizes him from that particular flashback when he was controlling the 4th mizukage.

    That gets me stuck so either Tobi really looks like madara or yeah... I'll let Kishi do his plot no jutsu with that.

    Any thoughts ?
     
         

  13. #13
    Member
    Status
    Senju Nuon is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    35
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Madara is a Master Psychologist

    Quote Originally Posted by edo tensai wilmaso View Post
    Bro we share the same conscious field lmao

    I agree with you , but I always run into a problem , when Tobi reveals himself to kisame , kisame is surprised in a good way remembering his face. The problem with that it's I'm 100% sure that's Tobi but kisame recognizes him from that particular flashback when he was controlling the 4th mizukage.

    That gets me stuck so either Tobi really looks like madara or yeah... I'll let Kishi do his plot no jutsu with that.

    Any thoughts ?
    The answer lies in zetsu I believe. That was madara who met with kisama the 1st time. THe second time was obito pretending to be madara. Who knows, maybe kisame knew both of them. And when he saw obito's face, he smiled and went along with the your are madara ploy.
     
         

  14. #14
    Member asdeiro's Avatar
    Status
    asdeiro is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    185
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Madara is a Master Psychologist

    nice theory ^^
     
         

  15. #15
    Forbidden itachi86's Avatar
    Status
    itachi86 is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    116
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Madara is a Master Psychologist

    great theory exactly what i was thinking, kinda long but nice!!!
     
         

  16. #16
    Top Bounty JakeLife510's Avatar
    Status
    JakeLife510 is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    923
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Madara is a Master Psychologist

    Very nice and articulated
     
         

  17. #17
    The Blade's Shadow FinalBoss's Avatar
    Status
    FinalBoss is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    423
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Madara is a Master Psychologist

    nice theory
     
         

  18. #18
    Senior Member TurrinB's Avatar
    Status
    TurrinB is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,343
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Madara is a Master Psychologist

    If Madara really planned out the whole thing with Rin and Zetsu, than yeah he's the best manipulator in the manga.
     
         

  19. #19
    Senior Member Uchiha Samater's Avatar
    Status
    Uchiha Samater is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Konoha
    Posts
    1,998
    Post Thanks / Like
    Also known as SPEAK123
     

    Re: Madara is a Master Psychologist

    + rep not for the theory mainly because i agree with the fundamentals. Obito as Tobi , has shown time and time again to have devastating mind games on everyone, only natural he has picked something up from Madara to manipulate people
     
         

  20. #20
    Senior Member yellowxflash's Avatar
    Status
    yellowxflash is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    1,405
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Madara is a Master Psychologist

    The whole mist shinobi attacking kakashi and rin is a set up, if it ain't it's some stupid ridiculous coincidence, another one like obito getting crushed just outside madaras hideout; I guess madara assumed obito would go to the mist and cause some trouble there after these events in revenge, causing obito to meet Nagato a key player in madaras plan
     
         

  21. #21
    Banned
    Status
    Fegelein is offline
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    181
    Post Thanks / Like
    The Gravedigger
     

    Re: Madara is a Master Psychologist

    Good theory didn't notice this.
     
         

  22. #22
    Member Glazebone's Avatar
    Status
    Glazebone is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    151
    Post Thanks / Like
    Living in the past, dreaming
    of the future.
     

    Re: Madara is a Master Psychologist

    Quote Originally Posted by Senju Nuon View Post
    The answer lies in zetsu I believe. That was madara who met with kisama the 1st time. THe second time was obito pretending to be madara. Who knows, maybe kisame knew both of them. And when he saw obito's face, he smiled and went along with the your are madara ploy.
    I can agree with you. But I just have one thing to add:

    In the months/years following Madara's death and Obito taking up his name, we see him meeting with Nagato, Yahiko and Konan. Remember it wasn't Obito/Madara who created Akatsuki but Yahiko (although he was heavily influenced). We can also see that in the flashback Obito/Madara tells Kisame about his plan and asks him to join his organization. Now I think that Akatsuki has already been formed or even Yahiko has already died. All this happens long after Madara hands over his name to Obito. Correct me if I am wrong.
     
         

  23. #23
    Senior Member obikage's Avatar
    Status
    obikage is online now
    Gender
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    obitos anime eyelashes
    Posts
    8,349
    Post Thanks / Like
    God's natural enemy
     

    Re: Madara is a Master Psychologist

    lol at old theories bc of lack of info. i agree only on the part of madara planting the seeds in obitos mind aka brainwashing. other than that it happened naturally
     
         

  24. #24
    Senior Member minamoto's Avatar
    Status
    minamoto is online now
    Gender
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    OR..
    Posts
    2,379
    Post Thanks / Like
    my Tobidara theory is a
    reality that will transform
    the Tobito reveal into a mere
    illussion...TOBIDARA REALITY
    IS CRUELLY MOVING
    FORWARD..TEARS OF JOY WHEN ITS
    GONNA BE REVEALED !!
     

     
         

  25. #25
    Senior Member minamoto's Avatar
    Status
    minamoto is online now
    Gender
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    OR..
    Posts
    2,379
    Post Thanks / Like
    my Tobidara theory is a
    reality that will transform
    the Tobito reveal into a mere
    illussion...TOBIDARA REALITY
    IS CRUELLY MOVING
    FORWARD..TEARS OF JOY WHEN ITS
    GONNA BE REVEALED !!
     

     
         

Page 1 of 2 12 Last»

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •