View Poll Results: Tobi being Obito

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41. You may not vote on this poll
  • I won, you lost, now apologise/ Give up.

    13 31.71%
  • Tobi is only part Obito.( Both os us were right)

    2 4.88%
  • Kishi is upto something. ( I am getting somewhat curious again)

    9 21.95%
  • Kishi might have redeemed himself somewhat but I am still not happy.

    1 2.44%
  • You guys are still at it?

    16 39.02%
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  1. #1
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    Tobi/Obito theories, predictions and discussions

    Tobi/Obito theories and discussions


    Post your latest theories and views about Tobi after Chapter 601 in here. Please participate in the poll and let's see how we are feeling right now.


    So...

    After chapter 599 one this was certain:

    Tobi was Obito - For the most part. He was the original "no one". :sy:

    There are still many questions to be answered properly, for example:

    • How come he survived?
    • Was it the head injury which made him go Tobi?
    • How come he thought he had a claim over Nagato's eye?
    • When did he had that growth spurt and MS awakenned?
    • Is it only the body of Obito?
    • blah blah


    Seeing that Tobi ID theories are STILL one of the most popular and repeatedly made thread, it is stickied yet again. So here is a thread for you to post your theories filling the gaps and explaining how it became possible till Kishi does it himself.

    Now play nicely and stop making separate threads for it every time you want to come up with some new ideas about Tobi's behaviour and what might have been the reason for his change of heart.

    Make a separate thread about it now and not only the thread may get closed/trashed you may receive infractions depending on the case.

    Please keep the thread spam free and do not make random posts.

     
         

  2. #2
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    Re: Tobi/Obito theories, predictions and discussions

    Summary of my Theory: Zetsu is a Madara Spy and Obito is a traitor

    My personal theory is Zetsu is a Madara spy created from the cells of Hashirama (White Zetsu) and his own cells (Black Zetsu) to ensure his own revival with Rinne Tensei and make sure Obito acts as a forerunner for the Eye of the Moon Plan which was originally devised by him.

    Obito intends to betray Madara which can be explained through him being shocked at Kabuto's revival of him and his neglect of reviving Madara with Rinne Tensei all the years he was dead.

    Obito seems to be a puppet of Madara in the grand scheme of things but his abrupt use of reviving the Juubi could possibly suggest he wants to "hijack" Madara's original idea and put the entire world under the Genjutsu with him being the supreme controller.
     
         
    Last edited by Negative Knight; 09-11-2012 at 05:59 PM.

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    Re: Tobi/Obito theories, predictions and discussions

    Uchiha Madara brainwashed him.
    No one else than Uchiha Madara himself is capable to fill someone's head with lies and hatred.

    About Obito's ''growth spurt'', Zetsu played a big role in this.

    Since Obito's left side of his body got crushed by the boulders, Zetsu remodified his body thus he gained a new appearance.
    The rest was up to Uchiha Madara.
     
         

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    I am more interested in knowing why Madara was talking to Tobi's arm..>_>

    That was a weird moment when he chided Obito for starting the project without capturing the 8 and 9 tails and then looked at his arm and seemed to address a talking arm! >_>

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/601/12

    ..
     
         

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    Re: Tobi/Obito theories, predictions and discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuchi View Post
    I am more interested in knowing why Madara was talking to Tobi's arm..>_>

    That was a weird moment when he chided Obito for starting the project without capturing the 8 and 9 tails and then looked at his arm and seemed to address a talking arm! >_>

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/601/12



    ..
    It was just showing Obito's Arm heal, nothing more, nothing less (Yes i know your trolling)
     
         

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    Re: Tobi/Obito theories, predictions and discussions

    So do you guys think Madara used Rinne tensei on Obito or do you think Madara just saved Obito? Either way, Madara looks near death.
     
         

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    Re: Tobi/Obito theories, predictions and discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Legendary Tales View Post
    Uchiha Madara brainwashed him.
    No one else than Uchiha Madara himself is capable to fill someone's head with lies and hatred.

    About Obito's ''growth spurt'', Zetsu played a big role in this.

    Since Obito's left side of his body got crushed by the boulders, Zetsu remodified his body thus he gained a new appearance.
    The rest was up to Uchiha Madara.
    Or maybe growing is a part of life, duh.
    They were thirteen when the incident in the forest happened, and it looked to be at least seven years later give or take a few years when Obito attacked Konohagakure. This isn't rocket science people just use your common sense.
     
         

  8. #8
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    Re: Tobi/Obito theories, predictions and discussions

    I think Obito wants to betrey Madara

    But what the f''''k was at the last page ? Obito or what ? And that was def madara that old man , he kinda looks like likes Nagatoo
     
         

  9. #9
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    Re: Tobi/Obito theories, predictions and discussions

    Im posting my own theory of master mind behind the plan, and why it is related to obito/tobi

    Alright it was originally planned by Madara


    But why? I can say maybe because he was old, he knew no one lives for ever, so he revived Obito


    And i Guess Half of its body made by 1st hokage's Cells



    But why Obito Turned to be Tobi? I Guess he was Grateful to madara who revived him "And maybe madara showed obito how kakashi let Rin dies", And why he doesnt care about his own name or not interested in this world? Because he saw death once, he knows no one lives for ever



    But why Madara needed Obito? Well i say because of His abilities, and as uchiha he seemed to be a loyal person to trust , And Madara needed someone to keep an eye on nagato


    So Madara gave his Rinnegan to nagato but why? when nagato was very young he got the Rinnegan, so he couldnt use Rinne Tensei no Jutsu right away... and Madara couldnt trust anyone else, so made obito to nagato's guardian


    But he betrayed them, now what to do? Well i guess obito himself could do the jutsu, but there is a risk, that u have to give your life instead, so why not to use Kabuto?


    Great idea, now Madara is alive and unlimit chakara and immortal, But why was he angry? maybe because he cant be jinchuuriki of 10tails in edo mode?


    so what they plan now? Contiune Master plan, but will Obito Revive Madara back to life? without Edo effect?



    Many that has been said was a theory so bear with me, And thank you for reading!
     
         

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    Re: Tobi/Obito theories, predictions and discussions

    At long last we now know why Tobito clenched his arm when talking about how he obtained Izuna's eyes to Sasuke. It was to keep his arm from saying "Man, that's a load of bs Sasuke". Kinda obvious when you think about it. Tobito could have been the greatest ventrilloquist of all time. Puppet ninjutsu users would be jealous because it requires zero chakra expenditure. Sorry couldn't resist.
     
         

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    Re: Tobi/Obito theories, predictions and discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by IzunaUchiha2 View Post
    I think Obito wants to betrey Madara

    But what the f''''k was at the last page ? Obito or what ? And that was def madara that old man , he kinda looks like likes Nagatoo
    as i said i think nagato may be madaras son xD they look to similar in the manga~
    That could be another reason why tobi said they were "madaras" from the beginning, giving birth to this power, we do not know~
     
         
    Last edited by Bloodytaste; 09-11-2012 at 09:43 PM.

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    Re: Tobi/Obito theories, predictions and discussions

    @Negative Knight:

    Killjoy. >_>
     
         

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    Re: Tobi/Obito theories, predictions and discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuchi View Post
    I am more interested in knowing why Madara was talking to Tobi's arm..>_>

    That was a weird moment when he chided Obito for starting the project without capturing the 8 and 9 tails and then looked at his arm and seemed to address a talking arm! >_>

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/601/12

    ..
    yeah, I know right? Like he was expecting it to talk back or something...
     
         

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    Re: Tobi/Obito theories, predictions and discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodytaste View Post
    as i said i think nagato may be madaras son xD they look to similar in the manga~
    That could be another reason why tobi said they were "madaras" from the beginning, giving birth to this power, we do not know~
    No. Nagato's life story has been told before. He is no son of Madara!
     
         

  15. #15
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    Re: Tobi/Obito theories, predictions and discussions

    First off all let's talk about Obitos Mask. The Off-Manga reason was just to hide Tobi ID from us. But what is the Story Reason? Well I guess there were some Reasons why Obito did this.

    First Time we saw the masked Obito attacking Minato & Konoha. Well mostly only Minato & Kushina saw him, any other died, as well as Minato and Kushina. So If we think logically, Obito won't need to hide his face from them, if he did not care "who" he was.

    But that made me think, that he did care. He maybe still cares, but is just in denial. He did not want to show his face before Minato, because he did not want to get to emotional with his old sensei. I mean it was like a sign of mercy, to not show him his face. I think Obito didn't wanted to make Minato blame himself for this. I mean if he showed him his face, he could have a strong psychological effect in the battle, but he did not. Maybe because Obito himself still could not close his heart that good. I think this mask was really there to not show who he was, so he did not want to get to emotional, he tried to shut his heart, and also he did not want to make them search for him.



    Here Obito throws Naruto in the Air, if he really wanted to kill a young child, he could have done it on a instant. No he knew Minato was able to save him, that why he throwed him into the air, there was no "real" killing intention. What some people thought.



    Here Minato tells himself, what Tobito wanted to do, to seperate them them from Kushina.


    So how tried Obito to beat Minato? Yeah with Kamui, but that won't kill him, he would just stuck him into his Dimension, like he did to Danzous Men. But after Obito got beat by minato he lost control over Kyuubi, so maybe he did not really want to crush Konoha fully he just tried to get away with it, but he knew that if he won't beat Minato he couldn't so he tried and failed. This made his whole Plan get crushed, and so Kyuubi was now free to bee sealed again.

    I guess Madara was alive at that attack, it was maybe shortly before his death.



    here is why i think that, after Minato asked him beeing madara, Obito showed him his hair? Maybe he tried to tell him something? Maybe Obito thought that Minato could rekoginze him by his hair, but he did not, so there was no reason to tell him who he was, as Minato also did not care about that anymore, so maybe Obito was also kinda disappointed.
    After that Tobito told Minato " he did not know about that" so this that could be refered to Madara, who was still alive to that time, but maybe on his way to die, so Obitos first Mission was to get the Kyuubi as soon as possible. And that was Narutos birth, so Madara knew that, and i do not think anymore that Obito did it all himself.


    We can see that Madara seems still to trust Obito, the last chapter just showed me that Madara also had kinda personal or emotional connection on Obito. Maybe he liked him? Maybe its like Sensei/pupil connection, maybe a father son, or grandfather grand son, or just like beeing adopted, so Obito saw in him not only a teacher but a father.
    Maybe Obito did not want to betray Madara, but Nagato betrayed them as he stated, so he could not revive Madara anymore. After he saw Kabuto summoning the Edo Madara, maybe Obito knew that sooner or Later Kabuto would do this in the upcomming war. Obito stated, that Madara would most like overcome the Edo Tensei.



    there Madara asks Obito if he started the Project half away, what means that there is still Time to get the fully powers.



    Here Obitos Facial Expression, its like beeing kinda sorry? Or that he can't really explain him this whole thing. Madara Himself said " Well it's You...I guess you have some plan.." This Words seem like beeing really trul, so their connection just looks for me more then partners. I Think Obito did not really want to betray him, as said before he just did go on with the plan after Nagato did Betray them.



    There he says Nagato betrayed "us" and madara " whats with everyone" like what did they thought they are doing~ I guess Obito did just started to think about going on and rushing things after Nagato died, because they needed Madara for the whole Plan, but this could not be done anymore, so he was the only left who could do it. Maybe he saw his chance to create this world into his own imagination, so this was anther motive to rush things.

    Final conclusion:
    1. Obito has still good characteristics left, he ain't that evil and cruel, people thought.
    2. Obitos personal connection to madara made him switch his Opinion from this world
    3. Madara seems to trust his "pupil/partner/son/adoptiv son/whatever"
    4. Obito could get talk no jutsu-ed
    5. Obito maybe did not try to betray Madara/or he did and is just afraid of Madara, a person he has not only respect but also an personal connection with.

    so what u guys think?

    (posted this now at the right topic q_q)
     
         

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    Re: Tobi/Obito theories, predictions and discussions

    In first considering Tobi's identity, I tried to take a more wholistic approach and started looking at elements that tied both the protagonist and antagonist together. I've looked at several of the characters, their tie-ins to the common storyline theme, and to each other. I apologize in advance for the length, and any trips to the optometrist or psychiatrist the theory may cause.
    Hanzou:
    Tried to unite the five countries to bring about peace and fought a war to do so. During his war against the Leaf he takes on, defeats, and names the three legendary Sennin. Later he teams with Danzo from the Leaf to betray the Akatsuki. My first initial thought was why would you "buddy-up" and try to setup ambushes with a group you recently were in a war against? I realize that they were playing "quid pro quo" and if this were the only question I would dismiss it, but there are other inconsistencies, for example Hanzou's sudden inability to remember folks names. Hanzou could barely remember who Mifune was, despite specifically asking for his name when he spared his life. http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/532 . In the same exchange with Mifune, Hanzo had a flashback to his own death. In the flashback, Hanzou struggled to remember Yahiko, another person he should have distinctly remembered. Nagato expressed his shock and dissapointment that this once formidable foe had declined http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/531/15 . There is an unusual character deviation for Hanzou. He usually praises his enemies, prefers to defeat them one-on-one, and if deemed worthy usually spares them but in Nagato's case he demands Yahiko be sacrificed. Another item that stretches belief was the body flicker technique he used to escape Gedo Mazo mid-attack http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/447/12 . Now, think of this as a writer. Why was Hanzou's escape necessary? He did nothing noteworthy following the escape, but the escape itself was noteworthy because it speaks to the power that he had, a power that abandoned him shortly after confronting Nagato. Several main characters also questioned Hanzou's loss of power throughout the story. During the Pain arc, Jiraiya also expressed his disbelief upon hearing that Hanzou had been defeated. One could argue that this was a plot device to show how strong Pain was, but the fact that Pain also expressed surprise leads me to the conclusion that there is another factor at work. Changes also occurred with Hanzou's personality. In one instance he seems completely unfazed at the appearance of a Rinnegan on the battlefield, and later he spends his time hiding in his compound and second guessing his decision. People that are committed to bring about a war don't second guess themselves.

    Shisui:
    Lot's of inconsistency here. First, he informs Itachi that he lost an eye to Danzo. Then tells Itachi to kill him in order to awaken his own MS (not sure how Shisui awakened MS but let's table that). Later the village says he drowned and had a suicide note. "To whomever finds my body. I am tired of all of the double dealings, so I am going to kill myself. Take no notice of my missing two eyes and arm. I had taken up painting in an attempt to overcome my depression but was such a fail I cut off my arm and gouged my eyes out. I would have cut off my other arm, but then I would not have been able to write this note, which proves it was a suicide. Sincerely Shisui." http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/222/7 . Anyway, there is also the inconsistency with Itachi even needing this as an excuse. If Itachi was planning to wipe out his own clan in a few days/weeks, why bother? Then there is Shisui's missing body. If I'm trying to hide a body, I don't let folks find it to establish an alibi, then steal it and dispose of it so nobody can find it. Couple this with the fact that Itachi teams up with the guy who took one of his best friends eyes? The whole thing stretches belief and reeks of mind control. We should also consider similar story themes like Izuna and Obito who gave up their eye/s to those they felt could put them to "better use".

    Danzo:
    Danzo also had the stated goal that he wanted to bring about peace. He did this by systematically dismantling those perceived to be threats to the Leaf (guess someone needed to get him a dictionary). His most evil crime was the Uchiha massacre. He used Itachi's own pacifism as a weapon against him so that Itachi would be a double agent. Itachi tells Hiruzen the Elders and Danzo about the Uchiha plans and before Hiruzen can resolve the issue, Danzo, Tobi and Itachi take them all out. Prior to this Danzo mysteriously manages to get ahold of Shisui's eye. I don't know about you, but if my best friend says that someone took his eye I'm not gonna go buddy-up with them and wipe out my entire clan. Itachi should have realized that even if there was a civil war of some kind, there would have been survivors on both sides and he certainly could have protected Sasuke. Also Hiruzen's failed attempts to negotiate with the Uchiha clan doesn't measure up to scrutiny. What kind of Coupe could it have been that the leader of the opposition is aware of it? This leads to a conclusion that some type of influence was at work that overwrote any other potential outcome. Then there is Danzo's need to combine Uchiha and Senju DNA. This need to combine these two blood lines occurs again and again with several characters. Also concerning Danzo was the flashback to Hiruzen's appointment to Hokage. It as a strange moment of interaction where Kagami suggests that someone should be a diversion. Danzo wants to volunteer but isn't able to. [BOLD]It was not fear of death.[/BOLD] Something was deliberately keeping him from volunteering. That something needed for Hiruzen to become the next Hokage. This in turn leads to bitterness with Danzo and Hiruzen, collaboration between Danzo and Hanzou, the Uchiha Massacre, Hiruzen teaching the three Sannin, etc., etc. We begin to see a pattern emerging for certain characters. Rival fixation, rejection, the need to become hokage, unrelenting determination, and for some unreturned love.

    Nagato:
    Nagato first came into focus when Jiraiya infiltrated the hidden Rain village. Like Hanzou and Danzo he wanted to bring about peace. Together with Yahiko and Konan he formed the Akatsuki. They were so successful in their attempts to overcome adversaries without killing, that Danzo looked upon them as his greatest threat. One has to wonder what was the threat? Hanzou also professed a desire to bring about peace. Was it that Peace might not be delivered by Hanzou's own hand, but I digress? Anyway, Hanzou sends word to Yahiko that he wants to negotiate, forms the alliance with Danzo, yada yada, I won't repeat. Couple of other parallels to point out other than his desire to pursue peace, and the complete 180 in his thinking as he abandoned his pacifist ways, the same way that Itachi did. The catalyst for this was the death of Yahiko, which led to the full realization of his Rinnegan abilities. It was the death of Yahiko that proufoundly altered Nagato's belief system and not simply a desire for revenge. Look at Nagato's face following his full awakening of the Rinnegan. He is not upset or angry about Yahiko's death, he is elated with the power of the Rinnegan. Shortly after this event Nagato abandons his pacifism and begins killing his enemies including Hanzou. We are also presented with the mystery of how Nagato could know Madara. It appears that Madara provided his eyes to Nagato with the intention that Nagato revive him using Edo Tensei. The problem is that Madara still had his eyes when he encountered Obito. An event that we know had to have occurred after Nagato had already awoken the Rinnegan.

    Itachi:
    He started as a prodigy and a pacifist having been horrified by seeing war firsthand. Upon finding out about the Uhicha coupe plans, he gives up those pacifist ways, he teams with a guy that took his best friends eyes and eliminates his entire clan including his parents. He then teams with the Akatsuki to go hunt Jinchuriki. ??? There is complete disconnect between what Itachi says and the actions that he takes. Later we discover that Itachi's purpose was to drive Sasuke to develop his eyes and seek him out for revenge then return to the village as a hero. There is an interesting exchange between Tobi and Zetsu when Zetsu tells Tobi that Sasuke has defeated Itachi. Tobi said "didn't see that coming, Not". Meaining that he knew that would be the outcome. There is also interesting interaction that occurs with Naruto and Edo Itachi. where Itachi burns Shisui's eye after explaining it's requirements to Naruto but also telling Naruto that he no longer needs it. It's as if Itachi has already figured out who Tobi is and realized that for whatever reason Naruto will be impervious to an attempt to enter his mind. Additionally I believe that Itachi's use of Izanami is itself a reveal of what is occurring within Narutoverse and may explain some of the inconsistencies. In Itachi's final moments as an Edo, one of the most important messages that he delivers to Kabuto is that he must accept who he is, he must stop trying to be something else. This message also applies directly to Naruto as explained in the conclusion.

    Madara:
    We know that Madara did not die in his battle with Hashirama. When he is revived it was clear that he was expecting it to be Nagato. Now the big mystery is how did he know Nagato. If Madara died shortly after awakening Rinnegan and it was the same Rinnegan that Nagato had the timeline just doesn't make sense. Time itself is a big factor throughout the story and the most powerful Jutsu's (i.e. FTG, Izanami, Kamui, Space-Time Migration, Barrier) revolve around it. There are several inconsistencies with Madara, he's dead, he's not dead, timeline, etc. etc. Once again with Madara we see the rival fixation, rejection, the need to become hokage, unrelenting determination.

    Zetsu:
    There are interesting correlations to Naruto's abilities with clones. Each of Naruto's clones is able to train and relay their experiences directly to Naruto and reduce the training time for Naruto. They also have the ability to gather and store nature energy and relay that back to the original. This is very similar to some of the functions that Tobi has Zetsu perform for him. Zetsu spams clones, records information, (though it is not clear how he is able to tranfer this information), and has the ability to gather and transfer stored chakra. Zetsu appears to represents an experiment to combine Senju and Uchiha DNA, to recreate some special clone abilities or an attempt to recreate the body of the So6P. The combination has resulted in gaining simillar abilities to Naruto's clones.

    Jiraiya:
    We all know that had a lot of knowledge and power and Nagato had managed to get most of the highest ranked, most talented shinobi, even Orochimaru, to join, but for whatever reason he avoided doing this with Jiraiya. This seems very strange given Pain's stated goals and the fact that Jiraiya was his Sensei. It also could not have been out of fear, Hanzou had dominated Jiraiya and the Sannin earlier in life, but spared the Sannin while Nagato took out Hanzou effortlessly. Also, Itachi avoided a conflict with Jiraiya while together with Kisame. Pain finally confronted him and after an Epic battle he overcomes Jiraiya. Interestingly, Tobi seems to take some pride in Jiraiya's abilities by goading Pain a little. Tobi tells him that Jiraiya really lives up to his reputation by giving him such a hard time. There is also very strange moment as Tobi takes extreme umbrance at Kabuto's mention that Jiraiya be brought back in Edo form and Tobi tells Kabuto "Don't push your luck". Finally there is Jiraiya's coded message the one that says "the real one isn't among them." but re-read chapter 407 Shikamaru and the rest aren't convinced that they properly interpreted the message. Here are some other items written within the message that I believe speak to another message hidden within "The Leaves, isn't real, exchange, time, impossible, Iko (which can be interpreted as You Go)." I don't have the Raw, but the emphasis on the brush strokes of the katakana I believe are crucial. Jiraiya's Taka hop may be telling us that you must hop over the second phrase, add the third then return to the second, but I am not a cryptographer, nor do I know Katakana so I will leave that to others to solve. I believe that Jiraiya knows exactly what is occurring. The 6 paths were made up of different individuals that Jiraiya had encountered during his travels and he wrote about in his novel. Jiraiya's first novel The Tales of a Gutsy Ninja did not sell copies, which means only a very few individuals would even have access to the 6 paths descriptions. Nagato, Minato and Naruto. This coupled with the specific knowledge of who those individuals were and the fact that they were spread throughout the Ninja world means that someone actively gathered them. This seems very strange that someone would go to through this much trouble. There is little chance that someone could reason out their identities based upon a description in his book without completely worshiping Jiraiya. It makes little sense to kill the person you most want to emulate.

    Minato:
    Minato seems to know quite a bit from his fight with Tobi. Isn't it said that all a high level shinobi needs in order to understand his enemy is to cross fists with them? I believe Minato discovered many things about Tobi and that he left him alive on purpose. Here is where Minato marked Tobi. It appears to have penetrated inside of his body.http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/503/3 Here is where Minato could have ended Tobi, but he didn't take the opportunity to finish him. http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/503/4 http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/503/5
    Here is Tobi saying the most cliche reference for every time traveling bad guy. http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/503/8 .
    So the big question is this. Why did Minato, who had a clear opportunity to end Tobi, choose to leave him alive rather than kill him? Finally there is the interesting emphasis during chapter 599 where we see two panels of the special Kunai that Minato gifted to Kakashi. Couple this with the seal Minato placed on Tobi's body you have the perfect ingredient for a final FU from Minato's son.

    Tobirama "The Doorway":
    He comes forth with two of the greatest Jutsu's in Narutoverse Edo Tensei and Space/Time Jutsu, and other than the brief exchange with Hiruzen when he was resurrected as an Edo, and the brief flashback during Danzou's death, we don't have a lot of details. Tobirama means "Vortex Doorway" and during the exchange with Minato, Tobi said something which struck me "Many doors remain open to me". Very cliche for time traveling bad guys, but I believe that this is also refering to Tobirama. There is definetly a hinted connection following Madara's defeat by Hashirama http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/399/11 . Many folks speculate on how the 2nd could have stumbled upon Edo Tensei given the sacrificial element of it. My thoughts are that the 2nd's use of Space/Time Ninjutsu may have allowed Tobi the door he needed to travel back into the past, and that "the real" Tobi actually provided Tobirama with the knowledge of Edo Tensei after learning it from Kabuto. Time-loops works like this, Tobi learns it from Kabuto and travels back to Tobirama's time, Orochimaru learns it from Tobirama's scrolls, Kabuto learns it from Orochimaru, and Tobi learns it from Kabuto. Neat huh? In a paradox loop you could be your own great, great, great, great grandfather. Tobirama is also responsible for setting up much of the inner working of the village including the alienation of the Uchiha's. He may have had some doing in convincing Hashirama that the Tailed beasts needed to be captured. Tobirama also ensured that Hiruzen was named Hokage which eventually leads to Orochimaru and Jiraiya. Anyway, I believe that Hashirama's era is as far back as Tobi goes in the loop cycle, aside from the event that leads to the actual loop itself.

    Elder and Younger Sons of So6P:
    Not much is really known about the elder sons. We know that the elder inherited the Sages eyes and potent Chakra and the younger inherited his body which had amazing stamina and recovery and enormous spiritual energy. The Sage chose the younger son over the older because the older wished to pursue peace through power while the other felt that love and understanding were the keys to overcoming hatred. They spawned the Uchiha and Senju clans and bear striking resemblance to Sasuke and Naruto. The younger son even has a head protector like Naruto but doesn't have the whiskers that are the result of the Kyubi's influence. It make one wonder, if Kurama is completely pulled from Naruto would he still have whiskers?

    Tobi:
    Many thing tie both Tobi and Naruto together. They both have an ability to "change people". Tobi was curious how Naruto was able to convert Nagato and wanted to see first hand the person that had caused Nagato to betray him, so he went to Naruto's inn during the Kage meeting arc to converse with him. This would have been an ideal time for Tobi to take Naruto out since only Kakashi and Yamato were there. I believe the reason he didn't is because he needed the timeline to proceed to his own creation. A creation he had a direct hand in. Recall Tobi's interaction with Sasuke following Itachi's death. He relays the incident of the Nine Tails attaching the Leaf. He tells Sasuke that he had a grudge against the Leaf and the Uchiha, and that he participated in the Uchiha massacre that night. There is only one item he does not mention, and that is that the event occurred during Naruto's birth. He says it was a random event http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/399/14 Another curiosity are some actions taken by Tobi. During his fight with Konan he is shocked to hear this uttered by her http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/509/16. He pauses, lingers, and respectfully closes Nagato's eyes following the fight with Konan. He takes umbrance with Kabuto's suggestion that Jiraiya be resurrected telling Kabuto not to push his luck. On the battlefield Tobi regrets having to face Shikamaru as though he has a personal relationship with him Tobi has used chakra chains that are much like Naruto and Kushina's http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/499 http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/567/6 . There was also Tobi's inability to phase through Naruto's head, which resulted in the headbutt. I believe this occurred because Naruto had already expunged his darker self, and now it cannot exist in the same space any longer. Tobi also has knowledge of what Minato and Jiraiya entrusted to Naruto. How could he know what Minato entrusted? Not even Kurama was privy to their conversations. In chapter 573 http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/573/1 http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/573/2 we see that Tobi was unnerved when Naruto revealed that he knew the names of the tailed beasts. He says "that face". Take a look at the panel preceeding that then compare with the Dark Naruto conflict http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/495/7 . Look similar? Both of them occur when Naruto is taunting an enemy who seems to know everything about him, but he is showing they don't, and their reaction is the same. So, it appears that Tobi has faced Naruto before and that he knows the extent of his power and what he really is http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/573/3. One reason for Tobi's concern is probably because he is no longer privy to all of Naruto's knowledge. However, I believe there is another reason that not knowing the names upsets him. It means he looses. If he wins and rewrites the timeline he would already know the names of the Tailed Beasts. Tobi is also another word for jump and I believe that he is doing just that by jumping from body to body, dimension to dimension and time to time. Another item that ties most of the antongonists together is the desire to recreate the abilities of the So6P. Zetsu, Danzo, Madara, Orochimaru, Pain, Tobi all seem to be either part of an experiment or an attempt to recreate the So6P abilities. It is the obsession with the So6P's body that is of interest. Let's analyze Tobi's statement. I am Nobody, I am No One. We know the Kishimoto loves word play and who is in need of a body? A recently excommunicated piece of someone's conscious. Tobi's body will probably end up being Kagami atm (ah well, I was wrong it was Obito), but forget about the current host, it's the conscioussness inhabiting that is the real issue, and that conscioussness is the darker part of Naruto. This conscioussness seems to have the ability to combine with others, much like Naruto is able to communicate with the other Jinchuriki, Sasuke, B, and tailed beasts.

    Kurama:
    Kurama can recognize Dark Naruto who stated if there was one mistake he had made it was letting the Kyuubi catch site of him. Naruto's darker side wanted to grow strong and take revenge on those that tortured him, while Naruto chose to forgive. Later when Naruto rid himself of his darkness and confronted the Kyuubi, Kurama asked where the real Naruto was and recognized that he was dealing with a completely different person. Later in the struggle it looks as though Naruto might be overcome with the hatred of the Kyuubi and Kishi presents us with this image http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/497/13
    It was very dramatic and a huge departure from the rest of the manga. It shows several souls in anguish. Some are asking Naruto for help, others telling him not to bother and wishing he weren't there, and others blaming Naruto for their torment. If these were the representation of the Leaf villagers when he was a kid, some of the comments are really out of place. The comment asking him "not to bother" is a very specific one that speaks to someone that knows what an outcome will be and doesn't want it to occur, this comment is foretelling Naruto's decision will result in their anguish.

    Conclusion:
    We should consider what the Sage Toad said to Jiraiya "You will have a disciple that will either save or condemn the world". Analyze that statement from a writer's perspective. Why would you have the negative there? You could just as easily say to Jiraiya "you will have a disciple that will save the world." So the fact that it is mentioned means that the writer is going to use it, and that it is a main part of the storyline. Another foretelling comes from the S06P about the future, he tells them to look for the one with the True Strength. This is identical to what Itachi had said when confronting Kabuto with Sasuke. Is he talking about the future or his own past when speaking to the tailed beasts? Is this the decision that led to the "jealousy" between the two sons? There are additional hints like Minato saying that as long as a Ninja System remains there will probably not be any peace. Jiraiya saying that someday he would have a student that would correct his past mistakes. Tobi saying this War will make all pasts presents and futures irrelevant. Even Kyuubi says to Naruto, if things are unbearable then he should "Erase Everything". The whole of Narutoverse seems to be stuck in a temporal loop paradox (like Izanami, but not illusion). Kishimoto is showing us different cycles within the loop. Much of it remains the same but like Izanami certain differences show up and appear to be "errors", but are in fact different cycles. Kishimoto is seeing if we will catch onto these changes. Individuals suddenly remember details they should have never forgotten, Jutsu's created by different individuals, timelines don't make sense as we see effigies existing when they should not. As the loop rewrites itself data begins to leak through giving us a picture of what is really occuring. Events leading to Naruto's birth were manipulated. Naruto made the wrong choice at the waterfall trying to gain control of the Kyuubi. He made the decision to try and expell his hatred, which probably resulted in the mistake and like Izanagi it must be corrected in order to escape. The story is much like the Buddhist story of Siddhartha. You must acccept all of it including the ugly bits. You continue to be reborn and are trapped in a loop, but you have the opportunity to pursue enlightenment, which will hopefully lead to Nirvana and end the cycle of birth as you obtain oneness with all.


    I'll edit and add others to the mix like Hashirama, Orochimaru, Hiruzen and Tsunade as time allows.
     
         

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    Re: Tobi/Obito theories, predictions and discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuchi View Post
    I am more interested in knowing why Madara was talking to Tobi's arm..>_>

    That was a weird moment when he chided Obito for starting the project without capturing the 8 and 9 tails and then looked at his arm and seemed to address a talking arm! >_>

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/601/12

    ..
    i now righ im still trying to make since of it
     
         

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    Re: Tobi/Obito theories, predictions and discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by immortal sage View Post
    i now righ im still trying to make since of it
    Guys it was just showing how his right arm healed, he was talking to obito all way long~
     
         

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    Re: Tobi/Obito theories, predictions and discussions

    There has been something in my mind from the time the chapter came about Obito. The age of Obito. I actually made a thread but it got closed and I was said to post here instead.

    Okay, let's begin. Here are some statistics which you all must be familiar with:

    Kakashi:
    Ninja Academy Graduation Age: 5
    Age when He became Chunin: 6
    Age When He became Jounin: 13
    Age in Current Manga: 30

    Obito:
    Ninja Academy Graduation: 9
    Age When He Became Chunin: 11
    Age When He Activated His Sharingan: 13
    Age at Death(Presumed by every one): 13

    Might Guy:
    Ninja Acadmey Graduation: 7
    Age When He Became Chunin: 11
    Jounin: Unknown
    Current Age: 30

    Now, I would like to show you some scans below:




    We can see that all of these characters are present during the Ninja Academy Entrance Ceremony, they also are all carrying the Ninja Academy Entrance Papers. This would imply that they all applied and attended at the same time.





    In these three scans you see Guy, Kakashi, and Obito. All have taken part in the Chuunin Exams. Now if we go by the info that was given to us, that mean Kakashi is 6 in these scans, Guy is 7, and Obito is 9. They are all graduates of the academy and have been referred by there Sensei's to take part in the exam.




    Here we have Kakashi receiving the rank of Chuunin, at age 6. The last panel on this page show shuriken been thrown in the winter months, hence the snow.



    The top two panel show the change and season as well, showing that time has passed. So since the Chuunin exam where Kakashi was promoted it has been 2 years. Chuunin Exam in the Spring/Fall-->Winter-->Spring/Fall--> Winter--> Chuunin Exam 2 years after Kakashi Promotion. Obito receives his promotion to Chuunin, age 11, making kakashi 8.



    We then see Rin whispering something to Obito in the next panel. Obito in the next page is waiting for her when others approach and she hands him the sheet that announces Kakashi's promotion to Jounin, age 13. And you can see that Guy has also been promoted to a Chuunin. This would mean 5 years have passed since Obito was promoted, making him 16, for Kakashi to be 13.


    If Kakashi was actually 13 when he received his promotion that would make Obito 16 years old without a doubt.
    Now, didn't a rock fell on Obito when he was 13?

    Kishimoto really did make a mistake I suppose assuming the information we all have is correct, which indeed is correct.

    Note : Kakashi really looks pretty big for a 6 year old kid.

    Hope this sounds interesting.
     
         

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    Re: Tobi/Obito theories, predictions and discussions

    Another crazy theory. Obito died under the rocks... and then was revived with Rinne Tensei @_@

    But that's just something my brain cooked up. At first I thought that Zetsu saved Obito and gave him part of his body (which falls off/regenerates). I hope to learn the secret of Obito's body as well because when the fourth Hokage used the Rasengan we found that Obitos LEFT HAND (not the crushed right side) practically melted off his body. This with the healing of his arm just makes me even more curious...
     
         

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    Re: Tobi/Obito theories, predictions and discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Thugg View Post
    There has been something in my mind from the time the chapter came about Obito. The age of Obito. I actually made a thread but it got closed and I was said to post here instead.

    Okay, let's begin. Here are some statistics which you all must be familiar with:

    Kakashi:
    Ninja Academy Graduation Age: 5
    Age when He became Chunin: 6
    Age When He became Jounin: 13
    Age in Current Manga: 30

    Obito:
    Ninja Academy Graduation: 9
    Age When He Became Chunin: 11
    Age When He Activated His Sharingan: 13
    Age at Death(Presumed by every one): 13

    Might Guy:
    Ninja Acadmey Graduation: 7
    Age When He Became Chunin: 11
    Jounin: Unknown
    Current Age: 30

    Now, I would like to show you some scans below:




    We can see that all of these characters are present during the Ninja Academy Entrance Ceremony, they also are all carrying the Ninja Academy Entrance Papers. This would imply that they all applied and attended at the same time.





    In these three scans you see Guy, Kakashi, and Obito. All have taken part in the Chuunin Exams. Now if we go by the info that was given to us, that mean Kakashi is 6 in these scans, Guy is 7, and Obito is 9. They are all graduates of the academy and have been referred by there Sensei's to take part in the exam.




    Here we have Kakashi receiving the rank of Chuunin, at age 6. The last panel on this page show shuriken been thrown in the winter months, hence the snow.



    The top two panel show the change and season as well, showing that time has passed. So since the Chuunin exam where Kakashi was promoted it has been 2 years. Chuunin Exam in the Spring/Fall-->Winter-->Spring/Fall--> Winter--> Chuunin Exam 2 years after Kakashi Promotion. Obito receives his promotion to Chuunin, age 11, making kakashi 8.



    We then see Rin whispering something to Obito in the next panel. Obito in the next page is waiting for her when others approach and she hands him the sheet that announces Kakashi's promotion to Jounin, age 13. And you can see that Guy has also been promoted to a Chuunin. This would mean 5 years have passed since Obito was promoted, making him 16, for Kakashi to be 13.


    If Kakashi was actually 13 when he received his promotion that would make Obito 16 years old without a doubt.
    Now, didn't a rock fell on Obito when he was 13?

    Kishimoto really did make a mistake I suppose assuming the information we all have is correct, which indeed is correct.

    Note : Kakashi really looks pretty big for a 6 year old kid.

    Hope this sounds interesting.
    I think your ideas about the timeline are way off, because of a simple mistake. You assumed that the timeline becomes skewed because they all entered the ninja academy at the same time. Truth is we don't know their age at that time. What if they wer all 5 years old? Seems unlikely because of how Kishimoto drew them, but I think he had a tough time drawing accurate aging. Let's say they're all 5 when they start, then that just means kakashi graduated ahead of them, and the rest took longer to become genin. But at the time they became genin, I don't think that there is any prohibition against assigning them to teams with more experienced genin. Meaning kakashi having been a genin longer, still gets reassigned to obito's team. And like how Naruto got left behind as a genin, while all of his friends became chuunin, if not almost jounin. Some of those scenes from the Chuunin finals were times when Obito and Guy failed the exam.
     
         

  22. #22
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    Re: Tobi/Obito theories, predictions and discussions

    Either Obito can time travel, or the guy who was controlling Yagura was someone else (meaning there are two Tobis). I can't think of any other way to explain who it was that controlled the Mizukage (it's pretty obvious it wasn't Madara).
     
         

  23. #23
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    Re: Tobi/Obito theories, predictions and discussions

    Yeah.......there's a typo in the second poll option.
     
         

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    Re: Tobi/Obito theories, predictions and discussions

    Tobi is obito, body taken over by zetsu. Maybe Madara
    Still had his genjutsu over obito and can control him at his will right now, if
    Obito changes his mind
     
         

  25. #25
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    Re: Tobi/Obito theories, predictions and discussions

    Half of obito was that zetsu substance which probably helped in his growth spur
     
         

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