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  1. #1
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    So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Thanks to the most recent chapters, we've managed to connect a few more dots in this whole "tobi is ..." chain of theories. Now, instead of trying to find out who Tobi is, I will point out some obvious things that some of you might have missed. If this was made before, I couldn't find it with the search bar, so sorry in advance.

    Anyway let's begin:

    1. Tobi being a former shell of himself

    This was stated by Itachi and Tobi himself. This makes me think that Tobi had MS/EMS in the past and lost it. In case he had MS, he overused it. Now he's trying to steal the best sharingan eyes and make due. Which is probably how he got Obito's. But wait it gets better... I believe Obito's death helped him with his plan more than the fox did, which I will get into right now.

    2. Tobi being able to use Kamui for years and years

    I'm guessing that Tobi is (a) either using Kamui very rarely (just when we saw him in the manga), (b) or that borrowed eyes doesn't strain you so much (look at kakashi) (c) or that he actually obtained EMS by taking Obito's remaining eye, meaning that he must be related to Obito is one way or another. One thing's for sure, he's got the same Kamui that Kakashi has, only it's a level above in terms of skills.

    3. Tobi waited for an opportunity to attack Konoha

    So I think Tobi waited a huge period of time to find the right moment to attack. And manga pretty much insinuated that the only reason Tobi attacked, was because Kushina was giving birth. I think that's only half the reason. Tobi obtained some power. He probably was looking for sharingan after sharingan to find a powerful one to replace his, and when he finally discovered Obito's, it was only a matter of time until he unlocked his true potential and could finally have enough power to attack. I think controlling the fox was secondary, due to the fact that his MS/EMS wasn't enough anymore to do much damage. Tobi was stuck with S/T + izanagi in case of emergency and that was all.

    In conclusion, can we say who Tobi is? No, not really. Not with 100% certainty. But knowing that he was a former shell of himself and obtaining MS/EMS very fast after Obito's just awakened his sharingan can be some important clues as to who he is and this might very well explain his actions.
     
         

  2. #2
    Member Armathyx's Avatar
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    I think Tobi is Obito so this thread makes no sense to me.
     
         

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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    poor obito, even when he tried to save something he failed..his death was the seed for this war.
     
         

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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    he's not obito and thats final :flaw:
     
         

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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    sad for obito
     
         

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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Armathyx View Post
    I think Tobi is Obito so this thread makes no sense to me.
    Tobi being Obito doesn't make any sense. It would be a huge plot hole as to how Obito managed to grow up 3 times faster than Kakashi, look older than Danzo when now Kakashi is still young-looking and obtain MS in time to fight Minato... but we'll see.
     
         

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    Senior Member NarutoKage2's Avatar
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anub View Post
    Thanks to the most recent chapters, we've managed to connect a few more dots in this whole "tobi is ..." chain of theories. Now, instead of trying to find out who Tobi is, I will point out some obvious things that some of you might have missed. If this was made before, I couldn't find it with the search bar, so sorry in advance.

    Anyway let's begin:

    1. Tobi being a former shell of himself

    This was stated by Itachi and Tobi himself. This makes me think that Tobi had MS/EMS in the past and lost it. In case he had MS, he overused it. Now he's trying to steal the best sharingan eyes and make due. Which is probably how he got Obito's. But wait it gets better... I believe Obito's death helped him with his plan more than the fox did, which I will get into right now.

    2. Tobi being able to use Kamui for years and years

    I'm guessing that Tobi is (a) either using Kamui very rarely (just when we saw him in the manga), (b) or that borrowed eyes doesn't strain you so much (look at kakashi) (c) or that he actually obtained EMS by taking Obito's remaining eye, meaning that he must be related to Obito is one way or another. One thing's for sure, he's got the same Kamui that Kakashi has, only it's a level above in terms of skills.

    3. Tobi waited for an opportunity to attack Konoha

    So I think Tobi waited a huge period of time to find the right moment to attack. And manga pretty much insinuated that the only reason Tobi attacked, was because Kushina was giving birth. I think that's only half the reason. Tobi obtained some power. He probably was looking for sharingan after sharingan to find a powerful one to replace his, and when he finally discovered Obito's, it was only a matter of time until he unlocked his true potential and could finally have enough power to attack. I think controlling the fox was secondary, due to the fact that his MS/EMS wasn't enough anymore to do much damage. Tobi was stuck with S/T + izanagi in case of emergency and that was all.

    In conclusion, can we say who Tobi is? No, not really. Not with 100% certainty. But knowing that he was a former shell of himself and obtaining MS/EMS very fast after Obito's just awakened his sharingan can be some important clues as to who he is and this might very well explain his actions.
    why cant you ppl accept the obvious implication of the last few chapters that Tobi is almost definitely obito? if you find a man stabbed to death and another guy holding a knife with the dead guys blood on it, and the stab wounds match those that would be made by that knife, what would you say? i wonder who killed him and put the knife in this guys hand?

    Asides from that, point 2 is invalid. Kakashi does get strained by using kamui, and tobi doesnt. not that this isnt obvious, but you might have noticed tobi mocking him about this when he says ' a borrowed power you can only use a few times'.
    oh and btw the shell of his former self was said because he was posing as madata, and anyone who had heard of the latter knew his powers weremuch greater than tobi's.
    And lastly about point number 3. So tobi went looking for 'sharingan after sharingan'. The obvious implication then is that tobi experimented with eyes, tossed them away after a while then got new ones. So kindly explain to me why for 16 years tobi chose to keep obitos eyes only(he had the same eye power when he fought minato)? and plz dont use tjhe weak argument that obitos eyes were the best, shisuis eyes and very likely many others like him had abilities that would put kamui to shame.
     
         

  8. #8
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by NarutoKage2 View Post
    why cant you ppl accept the obvious implication of the last few chapters that Tobi is almost definitely obito? if you find a man stabbed to death and another guy holding a knife with the dead guys blood on it, and the stab wounds match those that would be made by that knife, what would you say? i wonder who killed him and put the knife in this guys hand?

    Asides from that, point 2 is invalid. Kakashi does get strained by using kamui, and tobi doesnt. not that this isnt obvious, but you might have noticed tobi mocking him about this when he says ' a borrowed power you can only use a few times'.
    oh and btw the shell of his former self was said because he was posing as madata, and anyone who had heard of the latter knew his powers weremuch greater than tobi's.
    And lastly about point number 3. So tobi went looking for 'sharingan after sharingan'. The obvious implication then is that tobi experimented with eyes, tossed them away after a while then got new ones. So kindly explain to me why for 16 years tobi chose to keep obitos eyes only(he had the same eye power when he fought minato)? and plz dont use tjhe weak argument that obitos eyes were the best, shisuis eyes and very likely many others like him had abilities that would put kamui to shame.
    "why cant you ppl accept the obvious implication of the last few chapters that Tobi is almost definitely obito?" - simple. Because Kishi wouldn't spoil the main villain's identity with hints just before he should be revealed. Why can't you accept other theories? That should be the question. As long as my theory is viable, you have no right to claim your is better. After all, you have a theory and not a fact. And don't you dare say that Tobi=Obito is a fact.

    As for point 2. Kakashi,s vision doesn't seem affected by his over-usage of MS. Remember a little guys called Sasuke? He overused his MS when fighting the kage and then vs Danzo and you could feel the effect. Kakashi arguably went on an all-out rampage, only to join Naruto apparently untouched and with full MS use. A bit strange, isn't it? And the fact is that Sasuke is a pure uchiha, kakashi isn't. Itachi bluntly pointed out the fact that an uchiha is much better suited with a sharingan and Kakashi will never be at his level because his body can't keep up. Yet somehow, he's showing no signs of being affect by the MS itself.

    My opinion is this: Tobi was looking for eyes. The only reason why he agreed to exterminate his clan might have been that he was looking for a stronger set of eyes. He wanted Shisui's eyes badly, but couldn't get them, because Danzo had one and Itachi had the other. He stuck with Obito's eye because of the S/T and the freedom it gave him to warp in and out. Why is it so hard to believe he prefers this eye? Tell me of another uchiha eye ability that you know...
     
         

  9. #9
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    What if white zetsu are clones of obito ? And madara is using obito body*
     
         

  10. #10
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Armathyx View Post
    I think Tobi is Obito so this thread makes no sense to me.
    LOL
     
         

  11. #11
    Senior Member KidGamer65's Avatar
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Since i believe Tobi is Izuna, when Tobi said he's a shell of his former self i believe he was probably talking about how he was known to be equal with Madara but he lost his greatest weapon, his Mangekyo Sharingan, so that's why i think he said he's a shell of his former self.
     
         

  12. #12
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Don't try and be rational with NarutoKage, it won't work.

    And excellent post OP, +rep
     
         

  13. #13
    Senior Member NarutoKage2's Avatar
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anub View Post
    "why cant you ppl accept the obvious implication of the last few chapters that Tobi is almost definitely obito?" - simple. Because Kishi wouldn't spoil the main villain's identity with hints just before he should be revealed. Why can't you accept other theories? That should be the question. As long as my theory is viable, you have no right to claim your is better. After all, you have a theory and not a fact. And don't you dare say that Tobi=Obito is a fact.

    As for point 2. Kakashi,s vision doesn't seem affected by his over-usage of MS. Remember a little guys called Sasuke? He overused his MS when fighting the kage and then vs Danzo and you could feel the effect. Kakashi arguably went on an all-out rampage, only to join Naruto apparently untouched and with full MS use. A bit strange, isn't it? And the fact is that Sasuke is a pure uchiha, kakashi isn't. Itachi bluntly pointed out the fact that an uchiha is much better suited with a sharingan and Kakashi will never be at his level because his body can't keep up. Yet somehow, he's showing no signs of being affect by the MS itself.

    My opinion is this: Tobi was looking for eyes. The only reason why he agreed to exterminate his clan might have been that he was looking for a stronger set of eyes. He wanted Shisui's eyes badly, but couldn't get them, because Danzo had one and Itachi had the other. He stuck with Obito's eye because of the S/T and the freedom it gave him to warp in and out. Why is it so hard to believe he prefers this eye? Tell me of another uchiha eye ability that you know...
    i never said my theory is correct, in truth i dont have any theory i just follow the facts , but just to piss you off:TOBI IS OBITO ITS A FACT !! ill say w/e the fck i please, so dont t you dare tell me what to say or not to say.
    anyhow, i was hoping to keep this civil but to no avail. i guess desperate people like yourself must resort to such tactics when supporting an impossible argument.like the loser who posted above me
    you still didnt answer:
    -why tobi used obitos eyes for 16 years
    - how anyone would be able to tell that a 2 tomoe would grow to have such potential
    most important point:
    If it were merely Obito's eye that tobi has, then it must have been taken from obitos body.BUT, obitos body was crushed, the entire right side including the right eyr while the left eye was taken by kakashi. THE ONLY WAY THIS COULD HAVE HAPPENED WAS IF OBITO AWOKE HIS S/T AS THE BOULDER FELL, otherwise his eye would have been useless. Think about it. It didnt take much for danzo to destroy shisuis eyes , you think a giant boulder gwould not have crushed obitos?
    BUT, if the powers of s/t had activated back then, obito would still be alive! Thus if tobi hsd to steal his eyes and kill obito, he would need to kill someone who had the s/t abilities that happen to be the only power tobi has ever used(sarcasm). This is why icannot accept your theory.
    Sorry for the spelling/ grammar im on my phone.
     
         
    Last edited by NarutoKage2; 08-23-2012 at 09:12 PM. Reason: cuz i get to noobs

  14. #14
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    Since i believe Tobi is Izuna, when Tobi said he's a shell of his former self i believe he was probably talking about how he was known to be equal with Madara but he lost his greatest weapon, his Mangekyo Sharingan, so that's why i think he said he's a shell of his former self.
    This. Plus we know Tobi's ambition is to become "complete" which is why he may be disobeying Madara's original plan for his own purposes.
     
         

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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by NarutoKage2 View Post
    i never said my theory is correct, in truth i dont have any theory i just follow the facts , but just to piss you off:TOBI IS OBITO ITS A FACT !! ill say w/e the fck i please, so dont t you dare tell me what to say or not to say.
    anyhow, i was hoping to keep this civil but to no avail. i guess desperate people like yourself must resort to such tactics when supporting an impossible argument.like the loser who posted above me
    you still didnt answer:
    -why tobi used obitos eyes for 16 years
    - how anyone would be able to tell that a 2 tomoe would grow to have such potential
    most important point:
    If it were merely Obito's eye that tobi has, then it must have been taken from obitos body.BUT, obitos body was crushed, the entire right side including the right eyr while the left eye was taken by kakashi. THE ONLY WAY THIS COULD HAVE HAPPENED WAS IF OBITO AWOKE HIS S/T AS THE BOULDER FELL, otherwise his eye would have been useless. Think about it. It didnt take much for danzo to destroy shisuis eyes , you think a giant boulder gwould not have crushed obitos?
    BUT, if the powers of s/t had activated back then, obito would still be alive! Thus if tobi hsd to steal his eyes and kill obito, he would need to kill someone who had the s/t abilities that happen to be the only power tobi has ever used(sarcasm). This is why icannot accept your theory.
    Sorry for the spelling/ grammar im on my phone.
    You lost me after the first line. I was trying to reason with you, but it seems you are the unreasonable one. I never resorted to calling you desperate or anything remotely similar to it and also I sustained the actual FACT that manga doesn't show who Tobi is. If it did, we wouldn't have 1000+ topics on his identity. If you cannot accept that, don't try to make "us people" accept your personal opinion and then call me desperate. Good day.
     
         

  16. #16
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by NarutoKage2 View Post
    i never said my theory is correct, in truth i dont have any theory i just follow the facts , but just to piss you off:TOBI IS OBITO ITS A FACT !! ill say w/e the fck i please, so dont t you dare tell me what to say or not to say.
    anyhow, i was hoping to keep this civil but to no avail. i guess desperate people like yourself must resort to such tactics when supporting an impossible argument.like the loser who posted above me
    you still didnt answer:
    -why tobi used obitos eyes for 16 years
    - how anyone would be able to tell that a 2 tomoe would grow to have such potential
    most important point:
    If it were merely Obito's eye that tobi has, then it must have been taken from obitos body.BUT, obitos body was crushed, the entire right side including the right eyr while the left eye was taken by kakashi. THE ONLY WAY THIS COULD HAVE HAPPENED WAS IF OBITO AWOKE HIS S/T AS THE BOULDER FELL, otherwise his eye would have been useless. Think about it. It didnt take much for danzo to destroy shisuis eyes , you think a giant boulder gwould not have crushed obitos?
    BUT, if the powers of s/t had activated back then, obito would still be alive! Thus if tobi hsd to steal his eyes and kill obito, he would need to kill someone who had the s/t abilities that happen to be the only power tobi has ever used(sarcasm). This is why icannot accept your theory.
    Sorry for the spelling/ grammar im on my phone.
    this

    but bro, i dont think he got ms, i rearly belive he was saved by madara himself~

    and yes its obito ~ 3 Things why Izuna cant be tobi. 1.he would not need an artifical body ~ 2. Why does he care so much about what kakashi did. Izuna wont do that shit~ 3. Izuna has simply no motivation, to bring " peace ", tobis words just make me think he is more someone whos belives where crushed, by everyone.

    There is a missing Flashback for Rin, so perfect timing to make kakashi shine, and get this point out there to explain his ms sharingan, and rins death by making tobi into obito. Kishi does not want us to lead into a wrogn direction he just wants us to feel, and see what obito could have made think this way. And well if u guys really read the last 3 chapters carefully and also gaiden u cannot say, that tobis word wont match into an obito charateristic and thats people is in the manga and if anyone of u does not put 1 and 1 together then im out of this discussion xD
     
         

  17. #17
    Wisdom and Courage Honord Sage's Avatar
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    What better plot that Tobi is Obito, who's life and death experience change Him to what He is now from what He was, the same way Kakashi change that day too.
     
         

  18. #18
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anub View Post
    Tobi being Obito doesn't make any sense. It would be a huge plot hole as to how Obito managed to grow up 3 times faster than Kakashi, look older than Danzo when now Kakashi is still young-looking and obtain MS in time to fight Minato... but we'll see.
    :flaw:

    SEARCH!!
     
         

  19. #19
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodytaste View Post
    this

    but bro, i dont think he got ms, i rearly belive he was saved by madara himself~

    and yes its obito ~ 3 Things why Izuna cant be tobi. 1.he would not need an artifical body ~ 2. Why does he care so much about what kakashi did. Izuna wont do that shit~ 3. Izuna has simply no motivation, to bring " peace ", tobis words just make me think he is more someone whos belives where crushed, by everyone.

    There is a missing Flashback for Rin, so perfect timing to make kakashi shine, and get this point out there to explain his ms sharingan, and rins death by making tobi into obito. Kishi does not want us to lead into a wrogn direction he just wants us to feel, and see what obito could have made think this way. And well if u guys really read the last 3 chapters carefully and also gaiden u cannot say, that tobis word wont match into an obito charateristic and thats people is in the manga and if anyone of u does not put 1 and 1 together then im out of this discussion xD
    Madara died before Obito so this can't be possible.
     
         

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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    Madara died before Obito so this can't be possible.
    :sy:

    Find where MADRA says " THIS IS TOBI'S DOING!! " anywhere in the MANGA!

    " THIS IS TOBI'S DOING!! " - ANYWHERE!! :flaw:
     
         

  21. #21
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodytaste View Post
    this

    but bro, i dont think he got ms, i rearly belive he was saved by madara himself~

    and yes its obito ~ 3 Things why Izuna cant be tobi. 1.he would not need an artifical body ~ 2. Why does he care so much about what kakashi did. Izuna wont do that shit~ 3. Izuna has simply no motivation, to bring " peace ", tobis words just make me think he is more someone whos belives where crushed, by everyone.
    1. You don't know that.
    2. Possibly because he sees Madara in Kakashi. Consider how both are similar, both made promises they couldn't keep and in Izuna's case, he died for that very promise.
    3.You don't know what his motivation is. Obito seemingly has no motivation either.
     
         

  22. #22
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge View Post
    1. You don't know that.
    2. Possibly because he sees Madara in Kakashi. Consider how both are similar, both made promises they couldn't keep and in Izuna's case, he died for that very promise.
    3.You don't know what his motivation is. Obito seemingly has no motivation either.
    1 we now about that we saw izuna dead body in the manga but not obitos dead body thats a fact =/

    2. Aha and why should madara put exuses on graves of his brother? Why would Madara talk of tobi as someone refering to "his" like there relation is not really close oO read what madara says he seems not to be amused. Why should Izuna go " blind " to a bridge war and search for a sharingan of an 2 tomed uchiha? why not any other high clas uchiha with more potential? Thats stupid to think of izuna here...

    3. LOL yeah obito has no motvation... read gaiden, and read last 4 chapters if u dont can guess the motivation then...well i can say u lost bro ~

    and last but not least ~

    If The Rinnegan Tobi got is Madaras, this would mean that this eyes are orginaly izunas so why isnt he able to control his own eye fully? Huh ~
    Correct this rinnegan is either not madara or tobi is not izuna. If the Rinnegan is not madara then it proves madara could be alive till obitos " death" and rescued him. If it is Madaras Rinnegan this fully disaproves izuna theory, but not the posiblity of tobi beeing obito~

    Well The Rinnegan is the Answer~

    So if anyone says tobi is Izuna he will never be able to disaprove obito theory. cuz of this rinnegan shit would be izunas eye if madara really gave his own it to nagato ~
     
         
    Last edited by Bloodytaste; 08-23-2012 at 11:57 PM.

  23. #23
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodytaste View Post
    1 we now about that we saw izuna dead body in the manga but not obitos dead body thats a fact =/

    2. Aha and why should madara put exuses on graves of his brother? Why would Madara talk of tobi as someone refering to "his" like there relation is not really close oO read what madara says he seems not to be amused. Why should Izuna go " blind " to a bridge war and search for a sharingan of an 2 tomed uchiha? why not any other high clas uchiha with more potential? Thats stupid to think of izuna here...

    3. LOL yeah obito has no motvation... read gaiden, and read last 4 chapters if u dont can guess the motivation then...well i can say u lost bro ~

    and last but not least ~

    If The Rinnegan Tobi got is Madaras, this would mean that this eyes are orginaly izunas so why isnt he able to control his own eye fully? Huh ~
    Correct this rinnegan is either not madara or tobi is not izuna. If the Rinnegan is not madara then it proves madara could be alive till obitos " death" and rescued him. If it is Madaras Rinnegan this fully disaproves izuna theory, but not the posiblity of tobi beeing obito~

    Well The Rinnegan is the Answer~

    So if anyone says tobi is Izuna he will never be able to disaprove obito theory. cuz of this rinnegan shit would be izunas eye if madara really gave his own it to nagato ~
    Before you read my response, I encourage you to at least try and think outside the box here. Consider all possibilities.

    1. It doesn't matter what we saw. If Izuna was somehow revived (assuming he actually did die) he'd need a way to modify his body to preserve his life. Also the flashback we saw him in would be inconsequential of Tobi actually WAS Izuna; wouldn't you expect Tobi (if he's Izuna) to lie about the Izuna/Madara backstory in order to convince Sasuke that he (Tobi) actually was Madara?

    We saw Izuna's dead body in a "flashback", we saw Obito being crushed through an actual character perspective. There's a difference.

    2. Because Madara failed. Izuna gave/lost his eyes to his brother with the likely promise that Madara would use EMS to glorify the Uchiha and dominate the Senju once and for all (this was before the founding of Konoha). Madara had no choice, it was take his brother's eyes or go blind. This is where he probably made excuses to Izuna to soften the reality. Something like, "I need your eyes for the good of the clan, please understand"

    Izuna, likely a loving brother, trusted Madara and then lost everything. He was an Uchiha without a sharinga, all of his power that he attained with his brother gone. And to add insult to injury, Madara failed to beat Hashirama and was outcast from the village. Imagine Madara apologizing in front of Izuna's grave in this circumstance, just like Kakashi failed to protect Rin.

    3. I've read Gaiden, thank you. He has no motivation. He gave his Sharingan to Kakashi as a gift after finally connecting with him as friends and making him realize being a shinobi is more than the rules; it's protecting your comrades. His final words were "I wish we could have gone on longer, together."

    Does that really sound like a diabolical villain to you? All Obito theorsists claim is, "Oh, well if he was revived then he would have found out Rin died and went evil because Madara coerced him to be". <- this isn't based on anything factual.

    And your last but not least bit:

    We don't know yet, all we know is he can't. Your question is basically the same as, "if two brothers swap MS eyes will they both awaken EMS?" If you find the answer to that then let me know.

    Furthermore, we don't know the reqs for awakening the Rinnegan or how it's used so this is really Null and Void.
     
         

  24. #24
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge View Post
    Before you read my response, I encourage you to at least try and think outside the box here. Consider all possibilities.

    1. It doesn't matter what we saw. If Izuna was somehow revived (assuming he actually did die) he'd need a way to modify his body to preserve his life. Also the flashback we saw him in would be inconsequential of Tobi actually WAS Izuna; wouldn't you expect Tobi (if he's Izuna) to lie about the Izuna/Madara backstory in order to convince Sasuke that he (Tobi) actually was Madara?

    We saw Izuna's dead body in a "flashback", we saw Obito being crushed through an actual character perspective. There's a difference.

    2. Because Madara failed. Izuna gave/lost his eyes to his brother with the likely promise that Madara would use EMS to glorify the Uchiha and dominate the Senju once and for all (this was before the founding of Konoha). Madara had no choice, it was take his brother's eyes or go blind. This is where he probably made excuses to Izuna to soften the reality. Something like, "I need your eyes for the good of the clan, please understand"

    Izuna, likely a loving brother, trusted Madara and then lost everything. He was an Uchiha without a sharinga, all of his power that he attained with his brother gone. And to add insult to injury, Madara failed to beat Hashirama and was outcast from the village. Imagine Madara apologizing in front of Izuna's grave in this circumstance, just like Kakashi failed to protect Rin.

    3. I've read Gaiden, thank you. He has no motivation. He gave his Sharingan to Kakashi as a gift after finally connecting with him as friends and making him realize being a shinobi is more than the rules; it's protecting your comrades. His final words were "I wish we could have gone on longer, together."

    Does that really sound like a diabolical villain to you? All Obito theorsists claim is, "Oh, well if he was revived then he would have found out Rin died and went evil because Madara coerced him to be". <- this isn't based on anything factual.

    And your last but not least bit:

    We don't know yet, all we know is he can't. Your question is basically the same as, "if two brothers swap MS eyes will they both awaken EMS?" If you find the answer to that then let me know.

    Furthermore, we don't know the reqs for awakening the Rinnegan or how it's used so this is really Null and Void.
    1. it doesnt matter what we saw? cool story...so this means tobi is madara...jeah we saw madara as edo tensei, but u now say it does not matter what we saw! with this logic he can be Naruto with black dyed hair. Why should he modify it into zetsu body parts? why did madara not have modfied zetsu parts then? huh? sorry but this guess is ridicoulous ~ obito who need zetsu parts because of an crushed body is more fitting here~

    2. and still izuna died oO how could have izuna know then that his brother would made exuses on his grave? (This!)~ Madara himself if he would really be ashemd of is failure, and love his little brother, he wouldnt speak of him like someone he does not really have an personal relation. Go to chapter parts of Edo madara talking about tobi~

    3. boy he hase motvation, look he wanted to change the ninja world from the beginning. Obito say to himself he never wanted to be mouthing off(Minato said to obito he opens his mouth to rash), and thats exact the same thing tobi says to kakashi. He is just word no actions. Kakashi promied to save rin with his life, but shie died and he continued living. The connection between rin & Obito was much greater then to kakashi. Yeah they " made " peace, but not that much to say obito would grab on this moment and dont change. Also it is a theory but this would make the best sense, how obito would know about the moon eye plan and get so strong~ There is nothing Factuel in here, exept the things we see in the manga.

    end~
     
         

  25. #25
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodytaste View Post
    1. it doesnt matter what we saw? cool story...so this means tobi is madara...jeah we saw madara as edo tensei, but u now say it does not matter what we saw! with this logic he can be Naruto with black dyed hair. Why should he modify it into zetsu body parts? why did madara not have modfied zetsu parts then? huh? sorry but this guess is ridicoulous ~ obito who need zetsu parts because of an crushed body is more fitting here~

    2. and still izuna died oO how could have izuna know then that his brother would made exuses on his grave? (This!)~ Madara himself if he would really be ashemd of is failure, and love his little brother, he wouldnt speak of him like someone he does not really have an personal relation. Go to chapter parts of Edo madara talking about tobi~

    3. boy he hase motvation, look he wanted to change the ninja world from the beginning. Obito say to himself he never wanted to be mouthing off(Minato said to obito he opens his mouth to rash), and thats exact the same thing tobi says to kakashi. He is just word no actions. Kakashi promied to save rin with his life, but shie died and he continued living. The connection between rin & Obito was much greater then to kakashi. Yeah they " made " peace, but not that much to say obito would grab on this moment and dont change. Also it is a theory but this would make the best sense, how obito would know about the moon eye plan and get so strong~ There is nothing Factuel in here, exept the things we see in the manga.

    end~
    1. As I expected, you read the first sentence of that reply and didn't bother to comprehend the rest. What I meant was, seeing Izuna in a pseudo flashback is different. Until we get a legit Madara backstory similar to how Obito's was shown, don't take what we know about Izuna as fact. Obviously Madara isn't Tobi, don't blow my words out of proportion when you probably never even read the post.

    2. This is assuming the eyes were actually given, what if Madara took them by force like Itachi said? This would suggest Madara was in a dominant relationship with Izuna and maybe forced him to do his will. Izuna may have been revived somewhere down the line for this purpose and told the truth, or he never died in the first place. These are possibilities that are viable.

    3. Assuming Madara magically found Obito under a rock, Obito would betray the entire Ninja world, killing his leaf comrades on multiple occasions, over the fact that Rin died? Not even an attempt to speak with Kakashi or Minato? It doesn't make sense.

    Don't get cocky and think you've ended it, we're just getting started kid.
     
         

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