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  1. #1
    Member Akx19's Avatar
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    Naruto Investors and reasoning for current plot developments (don't hate Kishi)

    WARNING: WALL OF TEXT AHEAD, I've tried to break it into parts so its more readable.

    There has been a lot of talk and a lot of threads about how Kishi has no idea what hes doing, hes high, he sucks, he changed his mind, hes trolling us etc. And I'm sure many of you are sick of it. As am I. But being a business man myself I can support Kishi a lot in what hes doing. And I think hes a brilliant story teller.

    I'm positive that the Shippuden story line was laid out in it's entirety before they launched the series. Meaning everything was planned out from the start. Yes, Obito and his grudge, kakashi and his ms, the Sage of six paths, Zetsu, Madara and so forth. Most of the time that's the way business works. You present what you want to do to the company or investors that want to back you financially. Given the HUGE success of the original series there is a lot of planning that goes into a sequel. There is just no way companies or investors would go to production without knowing what product they are delivering.

    Now does this mean that Shippuden was planned out during the original canon series? Possibly, I'm sure Kishi intended some parts to be explained later, but in my opinion the majority of the plot was developed just before the 3 year jump. There were A LOT of loose ends and plot holes that were never fully explained back then and the shippuden series was intended to bring closure to the story. Does this mean Kishi changed his mind on details of the plot? no, but since he never fully explained things in the first series he left himself a lot of room to elaborate. And that pissed everyone off :D

    Looking back at the series knowing what we do now, It is blatantly obvious to see the careful planning that went into the plot. Everything from character development to inspirations from Japanese / Chinese history and culture. Think of the Naruto Manga as a movie or TV show that reveals the climax of the film at the start of the show. Then says, "20 years later/earlier". Then you spend the rest of the time watching how that event ties into everything. At the end getting to see it again, but this time you have that "AHA!" moment. (like was shown in fight club) It was absolutely no mistake that Kakashi Gaiden was shown as a prequel to the start of the series that ultimately focused on Obito as the unsuspecting antagonist and Naruto's development as the ultimate protagonist. Now we are seeing it again at the climax of the series. It was also no mistake that very soon into the series we started seeing details on the Uchiha and their background including Kakashi's MS. But it wasn't until much later in the series that we got to see the who, what, when, where, why and how.

    I think the reason why you are all so frustrated is because of the length of the series. Normally in a movie you get to see who, what, when, where, why, and how an hour and a half later. In this series you get to see it literally up to 5 years later. During that time we are bombarded with forshadowing of things to come which leaves a lot of room and time for speculation and assumptions. Because of this we make our own conclusions. We debate them so fervently that when the truth is revealed we are dissapointed because it "wasn't good enough" or "didn't live up to my expectations for kishi's writing".

    So why is shippuden different from the original series? Why am I not satisfied like I was before? Although I'm writing to you from a new account I have been a member of this fansite since the beginning. And honestly nothing has changed. Back then people argued and were dissapointed JUST AS MUCH as they are now. However the story progressed enough to the point where we all had that "AHA!" moment and we fell in love with the series all over again. I promise you, Kishi didn't forget, it is coming again. Enjoy it when it happens!

    If you've got this far I appreciate you for reading my wall of text. I'd love to hear your opinions below but please try to keep your comments related to the information I've posted. No chapter discussions please

    Thanks!
     
         
    Last edited by Akx19; 10-11-2012 at 12:41 AM.

  2. #2
    #1 Gfxer of NB 2012 Sasuke..'s Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Investors and reasoning for current plot developments (don't hate Kishi)

    Not readable +rep for effort !
     
         

  3. #3
    XX. The Judgement Tartarus's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Investors and reasoning for current plot developments (don't hate Kishi)

    Agreed, people are just getting impatient.
     
         

  4. #4
    Senior Member Lilvic92's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Investors and reasoning for current plot developments (don't hate Kishi)

    I agree +rep
     
         

  5. #5
    Kaika Saisei 開花再生 Chatte's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Investors and reasoning for current plot developments (don't hate Kishi)

    Well, you do have a point with investitors and such but still doesn't excuse some of his lacks throughout the series...
     
         

  6. #6
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    Re: Naruto Investors and reasoning for current plot developments (don't hate Kishi)

    F**k anyone who didnt take the time to read this, because you put a lot of thought into it, are 100% correct, and passing up a chance to read and expand your perspective is a dumb thing to do. But you're exactly right, I lived for the AHA moments and naruto does the best job of creating a build up with suspense and tension. Remember that WORLD F**KING WAR that happened, it wasn't even close to the climax of the series.

    Thanks for the Post, I really hope more people get to read this. Because you're completely right.
     
         

  7. #7
    Member Raiden001's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Investors and reasoning for current plot developments (don't hate Kishi)

    Well said Akx19 pretty much hit the nail on the head with this one. Everyone just needs to be patient and enjoy Kishi's work.

    +rep
    5 stars!!!!
     
         

  8. #8
    Waltz Loser's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Investors and reasoning for current plot developments (don't hate Kishi)

    idk about character development. remember the silhouettes of the akatsuki in part one?
     
         

  9. #9
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    Re: Naruto Investors and reasoning for current plot developments (don't hate Kishi)

    It's been said multiple times, great post, and I agree.

    +rep and 5*s
     
         

  10. #10
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    Re: Naruto Investors and reasoning for current plot developments (don't hate Kishi)

    Thank you everyone for the support and +Reps.

    @Aquadextrious
    Your absolutely right, but that actually helps my point. Kishi introducing Akatsuki in the middle of the original series proves that he had been planning this long before the 3 year jump. If I remember right not only were Itachi and Kisame introduced and the silhouettes of the other members shown, but jiraiya told kakashi that they were collecting the tailed beasts. Which means Kishi already had the Moons eye plan developed, which also means he had obitos and madras back story planned out too. What's interesting as well is that the first time they are introduced the mangekyou sharingan is shown for the first time and is used on none other than Kakashi. Which could be an early foreshadowing that none of us saw as well. Makes me wonder if the entire series, both canon and shippuden was written and laid out before the manga began being produced.
     
         

  11. #11
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    Re: Naruto Investors and reasoning for current plot developments (don't hate Kishi)

    too much at this hour maybe later.
     
         

  12. #12
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    Re: Naruto Investors and reasoning for current plot developments (don't hate Kishi)

    Quote Originally Posted by peteriscoo View Post
    F**k anyone who didnt take the time to read this, because you put a lot of thought into it, are 100% correct, and passing up a chance to read and expand your perspective is a dumb thing to do. But you're exactly right, I lived for the AHA moments and naruto does the best job of creating a build up with suspense and tension. Remember that WORLD F**KING WAR that happened, it wasn't even close to the climax of the series.

    Thanks for the Post, I really hope more people get to read this. Because you're completely right.
    you're reading it because you are a clone of zetsu.
     
         

  13. #13
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    Re: Naruto Investors and reasoning for current plot developments (don't hate Kishi)

    Many good points (+rep), but this I agree with wholeheartedly:
    Quote Originally Posted by Akx19 View Post
    During that time we are bombarded with forshadowing of things to come which leaves a lot of room and time for speculation and assumptions. Because of this we make our own conclusions. We debate them so fervently that when the truth is revealed we are dissapointed because it "wasn't good enough" or "didn't live up to my expectations for kishi's writing".
    Well said. Nevertheless, I've admittedly been more disappointed than not with recent chapters, and I'm convinced that either Kishi changed his mind about Tobi/Obito at some point and then changed it back, or he's seriously just screwing with us (see, e.g., Ch. 512 pg. 9). If someone can explain how that conversation could ever make sense given what we now know, I'm all ears.
     
         

  14. #14
    Sennin 6PathsofKami's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Investors and reasoning for current plot developments (don't hate Kishi)

    I for one aint doubting Kishi for me everything is slowly fitting into place I have no complaints.
     
         

  15. #15
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    Re: Naruto Investors and reasoning for current plot developments (don't hate Kishi)

    Quote Originally Posted by Akx19 View Post
    Makes me wonder if the entire series, both canon and shippuden was written and laid out before the manga began being produced.
    No.
    Imagine laying out a story , and spending over a decade just executing it, day by day.
    Kishi did lay out the "rough" outlines of the main-plot, no doubts there, but I'm certain he left a lot of things open for himself.
     
         

  16. #16
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    Re: Naruto Investors and reasoning for current plot developments (don't hate Kishi)

    I agree with quite a lot, but I would say he laid out the entire of the core story from beginning to end, and the rest he left things open to himself so he can fill in whatever gaps need filling in as he goes. I also don't think he intended to write the story for Naruto idiots who claimed there's plot holes before things were explained or when they can't make sense of things such as Kakashi shown to be having his MS before the series began. Either people are stupid, or they're trying to purposely find plot holes as an excuse to stop reading the manga or something. I post on the ones that are stupid just to get my post up while posting something productive, and I don't subscribe to the thread since I'm not interested in those threads. But anyway, you put a very well thought out thread, I'd like to see more of these on NB, please.
     
         

  17. #17
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    Re: Naruto Investors and reasoning for current plot developments (don't hate Kishi)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lodratio View Post
    No.
    Imagine laying out a story , and spending over a decade just executing it, day by day.
    Kishi did lay out the "rough" outlines of the main-plot, no doubts there, but I'm certain he left a lot of things open for himself.
    no way could you write the story and draw a 17 page manga week by week. The story would have to planned out to a pretty extensive degree or it wouldn't be a weekly thing, we'd get it in long ass chapters released every few months
     
         

  18. #18
    Senior Member thegame's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Investors and reasoning for current plot developments (don't hate Kishi)

    Hmm, I do believe you, but I highly doubt it is true all the way through.. I mean the beginning of shippuden was probably determined very fast, but from the moment tobi steps in it sort of changes things. I doubt Kishi planned everything at the moment. To me it seems more like they held a meeting once a year and he represents how the next year is supposed to go, but then again if the investor believe that the author is doing a great job, he will have no reason to change or affect that. After all, lets face it, naruto is number 2 manga in japan at the moment, and it has been that for some years now, and kishi earns his money there, why would they want to affect his work as long as they believe he has a plan?

    I also don't think you can use kakashis gaiden as evidence that he planned this far ahead. There are more ways to construct a plot for a series. Sometimes you get an idea and you create by using some older happenings so that it will fit into the story line. Kishi might as well have done that, but we can't know. I mean the gaiden was shown to show us how Kakashi got his sharingan, so I don't really believe that Kishi planned this far ahead. He also left out the statue of the 4th at the front page of the gaiden, but then had him on the wall in Kakashi and Obitos chunin exam, and this was no mistake, he simply wanted to make Minato kage a bit earlier, since that helped the plot a lot. And it was obvious he was already chosen to be the next hokage at that time, though the 3rd seemed to be teaching him how to do it, so he wasn't formally hokage yet. He even knew he would be hokage at the time he met A and Bee..

    So obviously he hadn't planned everything
     
         

  19. #19
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    Re: Naruto Investors and reasoning for current plot developments (don't hate Kishi)

    Quote Originally Posted by thegame View Post
    I also don't think you can use kakashis gaiden as evidence that he planned this far ahead. There are more ways to construct a plot for a series. Sometimes you get an idea and you create by using some older happenings so that it will fit into the story line. Kishi might as well have done that, but we can't know. I mean the gaiden was shown to show us how Kakashi got his sharingan, so I don't really believe that Kishi planned this far ahead.He also left out the statue of the 4th at the front page of the gaiden, but then had him on the wall in Kakashi and Obitos chunin exam, and this was no mistake, he simply wanted to make Minato kage a bit earlier, since that helped the plot a lot. And it was obvious he was already chosen to be the next hokage at that time, though the 3rd seemed to be teaching him how to do it, so he wasn't formally hokage yet. He even knew he would be hokage at the time he met A and Bee..

    So obviously he hadn't planned everything
    I'm fairly sure that was just a simple mistake, much like how raikage once regained his left arm on one of the cover pages.
    Unless you could explain to me how minato becoming the hokage earlier helped the plot?
     
         

  20. #20
    Senior Member thegame's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Investors and reasoning for current plot developments (don't hate Kishi)

    Quote Originally Posted by dildobaggins369 View Post
    I'm fairly sure that was just a simple mistake, much like how raikage once regained his left arm on one of the cover pages.
    Unless you could explain to me how minato becoming the hokage earlier helped the plot?
    Well we never really knew when he was made hokage, but look at the lower left corner:




    Obviously Hiruzen is still hokage here, but Minato is right next to him while monitoring the exam. 2 others are there as well in the next page, but they aren't shown from the front, so they must be deemed unimportant.

    I think what Kishi wanted to say, is that Minato became hokage at this time. When the exam was over he was the hokage. His face was already at the wall. My point is that that they went with a 2-man sort of kage thing. The 3rd took care of the village, and made sure everything was going as it should there.

    Minato was the leader of Konoha in the battlefield, which we also know from various battle scenes, where he always acted as the leader. We also know that oro started experimenting some time before this, so we know that Hiru made his choice a long time before he actually made Minato the next hokage.

    If minato really weren't made hokage till after the kannabi bridge was destroyed and the war ended, then he was kage for such a short period. But he said to A that next time they met he would be hokage. He already knew back then.

    Well it's as I said, if the kage retires and choses the next kage, he might still want to help the village, specially during war time, so by taking care of all the formal stuff so that minato could go to the battlefield, would be ideally, don't you think? If minato had to stay in the village they would have lost a lot more men during that war.

    So it does help the plot that he was made hokage about the time of the beginning of the 3rd war, but in order to win the war, the 3rd kept doing some of the job for minato, so that he could pay more attention to protecting the village at the battlefield instead of through diplomacy and strategy.
     
         

  21. #21
    Kaika Saisei 開花再生 Chatte's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Investors and reasoning for current plot developments (don't hate Kishi)

    The Hokage matter...

     
         

  22. #22
    Senior Member thegame's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Investors and reasoning for current plot developments (don't hate Kishi)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chatte View Post
    The Hokage matter...

    yet my point was that he had already been chosen at the time, so statue or not, doesn't change that fact. It could actually be defended, if he just made the scene after obito became chunin.. though of course you can bring back the chapter with the heads from kakashis gaiden, but well as i explained in my last post, minato was technically doing the part of the job that hiruzen couldn't due to age.
     
         

  23. #23
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    Re: Naruto Investors and reasoning for current plot developments (don't hate Kishi)

    I was thinking somewhat the same, but I was too lazy to write it down for people to understand..
     
         

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