Ichigo vs Ikkaku, Ichigo vs Renji

[roflcopter]

Hm.. just a guess.. Ikkaku is stronger than Renji right?
Renji even was under Ikkaku, iKkaku trained him and even now Ikkaku is respected by Renji. Well, what i wanna tell here is that Kubo messed up and very much. Remember the fight Ichigo vs Ikkaku, right after he got to the sould society? He defeated Ikkaku without any problems..
Assuming Ichigo has Enhanced growth rate, after few hours or days he BARELY defeats Renji- who is NOT stronger and should be even weaker than Ikaku. Hella he didnt even defeat Renji, renji almost killed him but then the strange eye-look came from his eyes and yeah he won...

So hm whats my point?
Kubo doesnt think his story very accurately.. First he draws fights and only then he generates his story, which may not be up to what he said earlier. It was even said in the manga that Ikkaku is a captain level fighter and the only reason he is 3rd seat is cuz he wasnts to serve under Kenpachi.

[FaithMan]

Originally Posted by roflcopter

Hm.. just a guess.. Ikkaku is stronger than Renji right?
Renji even was under Ikkaku, iKkaku trained him and even now Ikkaku is respected by Renji. Well, what i wanna tell here is that Kubo messed up and very much. Remember the fight Ichigo vs Ikkaku, right after he got to the sould society? He defeated Ikkaku without any problems..
Assuming Ichigo has Enhanced growth rate, after few hours or days he BARELY defeats Renji- who is NOT stronger and should be even weaker than Ikaku. Hella he didnt even defeat Renji, renji almost killed him but then the strange eye-look came from his eyes and yeah he won...

So hm whats my point?
Kubo doesnt think his story very accurately.. First he draws fights and only then he generates his story, which may not be up to what he said earlier. It was even said in the manga that Ikkaku is a captain level fighter and the only reason he is 3rd seat is cuz he wasnts to serve under Kenpachi.

Ikkaku is captain level as is his friend 5th seath . Both of them are mastered bankai and they could easy became vice-captains or with little push captains . Problem with Ikkaku is that he doesn't want to show his real strength because then he will be transfered from Kenpachi group , and because of that he is losing some fights wich he could win with little sweat and releasing his bankai . He clearly one day want to defeat Zaraki Kenpachi and became Kenpachi himself . And for his friend 5th seath he is following him because of some agendas that may be little out of order or very strange imo .

I wouldn't count their fights with Ichigo , because Ichigo had to win . If you look after their fights with Ichi story goes well and we can see what they can do . When fight with Ichi come no matter how much char is strong Kubo makes a little distorter in story and make Ichi a winner ( hell he dies at least two times per fight ) . And Ichigo had to get some pounding from Renji ( and not from Ikkaku ) because of Renji's relationship with Rukia and their unfinished fight from real world .

So I totaly agree that in first arc story wasn't generated 100% good with some wholes in story for some chars , but after first arc story is continued ok with less distorter then in first arc .

[roflcopter]

Originally Posted by FaithMan

Ikkaku is captain level as is his friend 5th seath . Both of them are mastered bankai and they could easy became vice-captains or with little push captains . Problem with Ikkaku is that he doesn't want to show his real strength because then he will be transfered from Kenpachi group , and because of that he is losing some fights wich he could win with little sweat and releasing his bankai . He clearly one day want to defeat Zaraki Kenpachi and became Kenpachi himself . And for his friend 5th seath he is following him because of some agendas that may be little out of order or very strange imo .

I wouldn't count their fights with Ichigo , because Ichigo had to win . If you look after their fights with Ichi story goes well and we can see what they can do . When fight with Ichi come no matter how much char is strong Kubo makes a little distorter in story and make Ichi a winner ( hell he dies at least two times per fight ) . And Ichigo had to get some pounding from Renji ( and not from Ikkaku ) because of Renji's relationship with Rukia and their unfinished fight from real world .

So I totaly agree that in first arc story wasn't generated 100% good with some wholes in story for some chars , but after first arc story is continued ok with less distorter then in first arc .

I agree that he had to win Ikkaku. The point is that Kubo hasnt considered the story of Ikkaku in the long run. Only after the fight he guessed....
" hmm Ikkaku should be strong, he should be older than Renji and much stronger than Renji and should be his sensei, that would mae sense!"
Kubo first reassigned their powers as "3rd" eat and VC, w/o considering their abilities nor their history.

ANd about your power statement, they both ( Renji and Ikaku) fought in shikai without any magic abilities. Assuming Ikaku is a swordsman specialist he should've been stronger and shoud've done more damage to Ichigo than he did.. All he did was a slight head and hand injury

[FaithMan]

Originally Posted by roflcopter

I agree that he had to win Ikkaku. The point is that Kubo hasnt considered the story of Ikkaku in the long run. Only after the fight he guessed....
" hmm Ikkaku should be strong, he should be older than Renji and much stronger than Renji and should be his sensei, that would mae sense!"
Kubo first reassigned their powers as "3rd" eat and VC, w/o considering their abilities nor their history.

Totaly agree with you .

[ringleader]

its like that thing with fights

A can beat B
and B can beat C
but A may lose to C

it may seem unlogical but fights are sometimes like this
because of circumstances luck etc...

[roflcopter]

Originally Posted by ringleader

its like that thing with fights

A can beat B
and B can beat C
but A may lose to C

it may seem unlogical but fights are sometimes like this
because of circumstances luck etc...

Well yeah. But enemies were both brutal fighters, both fought with their non-magic zanpaktou..
Luck.. yeah definitely but look those fights closer... there wasnt luck, just skill and power.

[Kora]

They had Ichigo fight and defeat Ikkaku in order for him to tell Kenpachi about this strong Shinigami. If he was to fight Renji before Ikkaku it wouldn't fit together right. Ichigo's opponents got stronger as he advanced. And since Ikkaku is a 3rd seat and Renji is a leiutenant we would have probably made the assumption that Renji was stronger. If Kubo was to make Renji fight first it would confuse use, because we would wonder why Ichigo is fighting a weaker opponent after he just fought a strong one.

[F-law]

Originally Posted by roflcopter

Hm.. just a guess.. Ikkaku is stronger than Renji right?
Renji even was under Ikkaku, iKkaku trained him and even now Ikkaku is respected by Renji. Well, what i wanna tell here is that Kubo messed up and very much. Remember the fight Ichigo vs Ikkaku, right after he got to the sould society? He defeated Ikkaku without any problems..
Assuming Ichigo has Enhanced growth rate, after few hours or days he BARELY defeats Renji- who is NOT stronger and should be even weaker than Ikaku. Hella he didnt even defeat Renji, renji almost killed him but then the strange eye-look came from his eyes and yeah he won...

So hm whats my point?
Kubo doesnt think his story very accurately.. First he draws fights and only then he generates his story, which may not be up to what he said earlier. It was even said in the manga that Ikkaku is a captain level fighter and the only reason he is 3rd seat is cuz he wasnts to serve under Kenpachi.

ikkaku wouldn't show his ban kai even if he dies...back then ichigo was a ryoka , not a trustworthy friend

[roflcopter]

Originally Posted by ~Madara~

ikkaku wouldn't show his ban kai even if he dies...back then ichigo was a ryoka , not a trustworthy friend

Renji hasnt fought with bankai that time too.

[j mafia13]

it all makes sence.

[Ryuusaki]

Do keep in mind that Ichigo probably held Renji in contempt as opposed to Ikkaku whom he had no reason to.. things like that seemingly add a lot to a fight
and stuff ain't anywhere near balanced.

Kinda like how Ichigo was pursuing a goal to rescue Rukia throughout the soul society and literally plowing his way through to the top even defeating an undefeated Kenpachi (who later saves his ass by destroying something Ichigo wouldn't stand a chance against) then later, when he enters Hueco Mundo, gets thrown around like a bloody deadweight punching ball regardless of a few moments of triumph.

In my opinion you're forgetting the also-important factors such as rage and suggest the outcome of a battle between someone purely based on their static level.

[x Karin x]

@faith

the 5th seat hasn't got bankai yet, he has only used a lazy form of shikai cos he calls it by it's nickname... and he used his shikai against that dancing freak who attacked one of the four pillars around karakura town.

@ rofl

i see what you're saying with this whole thing... but also renji uses longer range attacks than ikkaku so that would be a downside cos ichigo needed to be close to attack them back at that point in time
it all depends on the enemy they are fighting i suppose.

and ichigo was fresh to fight against ikkaku he'd already fought alot by the time he got to renji